20 replies to this topic

[shadragon]

In a post on hybrid cars in another thread, the Mooseinator wrote:

Hybrid technology is a farce to make people "feel" better. Just like the current "3 oz fluid liquid limit" on airplanes. Hybrids getting real world 30-40 MPG* aren’t saving the world. Just as not letting you take on a 12 bottle of water on a plane makes no one any safer.

Which triggered a thought. Given that Homeland Security is now as invasive as the rubber glove treatment (Any guy over 40 knows what I am talking about and I am sure the ladies have much the same experience a lot earlier...), has a budget three time bigger then before 9-11, explosive sniffer dogs and has body x-ray machines that check every square inch of you; Do you think you are any safer from a terror threat today then the day before 9-11 as you shoelessly shuffle inch-by-inch down the TSA wait lines? Or is this just a PR campaign that allows government to delve deeper into your personal life.

Opinions, thoughts, comments???

PS. This was the closest thread I could find to post this topic as we don't have a general discussion area (hint, hint, hint)...

[Racer184]

Anyone that thinks flying is safer today than it was 10 years ago slept through high school chemistry and physics classes.

It is all about getting re-elected by giving jobs to people who's job depends on you getting re-elected.

this is the government's goal

[shadragon]

government's goal

O M G... Now that is what I needed first thing this morning...

[Dennis]

There are a lot of things that have happened since 9/11 that the government has done in order to take away our personal liberties and civil rights in the name of "making the public safe". All are hogwash and only an attempt to make the general public feel good while gaining more control over the citizens of this country. The un-patriot act is one that I think is absolutely horrendous. Am I safer while flying? Maybe a tad safer, not much. There still is no screening of cargo that goes into the hold of each airplane we fly. Do you think that terrorists don't know this? If you believe they don't, you are extremely naive. They aren't stupid. Does the ADIZ around Washington DC make anyone in Washinton any safer? No, it does not. It only pokes at the people who fly small planes that couldn't make a dent in the Pentagon if they were filled with explosives. There are no restrictions on the airliners that caused the problem in the first place. So, they fly in and out with no issues. The entire restricted zone should be dropped and the normal restrictions returned. It would save us all a bunch of tax money.

[Latitude Adjustment]

The only thing that makes me feel safer flying and the terrorist know this too is that any group that tries to take the cockpit now will have the crap beat out of them by the other passengers because we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[drbill]

Do I feel safer in normal every day life? No, but I felt safe before and feel safe today. Do I feel safer when flying... a tad bit, but also far more inconvenienced.

The way to make us truly safer is to reduce the risk that we will become a target. That takes some significant changes in our foreign policy, one followed by both parties I might add. And a cure for our addiction to that thick gooey (as opposed to GUI) stuff.

[Moose]

Do you think you are any safer from a terror threat today then the day before 9-11 as you shoelessly shuffle inch-by-inch down the TSA wait lines? Or is this just a PR campaign that allows government to delve deeper into your personal life.

You are no safer today in your life then before 9/11. The risks have just shifted. The terrorist have won. On top of that we have thrown away the values we hold dear for a false sense of "security."

<soapbox mode on>
Want safer airlines? Why not model our airlines after the Israel airlines? They do a background check on each passenger, and then have guys with machine guns on each flight. You don’t take your shoes off to fly on their airlines. Hell, I don’t think I’ve ever had to take my shoes off (or had water confiscated from me) in any airport outside the US. Note, I’ve flow in just about every Middle Eastern country (minus Iran and N Korea.) Why aren’t other planes falling to the ground?

Also, the people screening the luggage are McD’s rejects. FWIW, I always travel with my 100oz Camelbak as carry on. To date, not one of these drones has identified it as “more than 3oz of fluid.” Even though I’ve drank from it IN LINE at the detectors.
As for the guns on planes, Oh no, we can’t have a machine gun on a plane. Our kids will grow up all messed up. Yeah, that’s the problem.

Want safer schools? Allow teachers and administrators to go through a background check, then a training program and then ARM them.

Geeze, you may think I’m just a gun nut. The truth is that I have seen these issues from the inside. I was a cop for 5 years and spent 18 years in the Army with 2 tours and many side trips to Iraq. You can’t prevent people from planning and executing these types of attacks. But you can neutralize them as they try to pull it off. That can only be done with well TRAINED and armed personnel.

If the weapons are in the right hands, you don’t need to pry into everyone’s personal life. You don’t need to tap phone lines, etc. The bad guys will figure it out pretty quick if every time they try something, they are shot.

If you think that cops are here to protect you, I’m sorry. Police today can only RESPOND to crime. Cops aren’t everywhere. They can’t stop people before they commit a crime almost 99.9% of the time.

Note, I’m also a stanch advocate of harsh prison sentences for people that misuse a firearm in a crime. I think the Graves act is to light!

To have freedom, you need to have responsibility. We now have NEITHER!
<soapbox mode off>

OK, now I feel better.

[secretsea18]

Do you think you are any safer from a terror threat today then the day before 9-11 as you shoelessly shuffle inch-by-inch down the TSA wait lines? Or is this just a PR campaign that allows government to delve deeper into your personal life.

<soapbox mode on>
Want safer airlines? Why not model our airlines after the Israel airlines? They do a background check on each passenger, and then have guys with machine guns on each flight. You don’t take your shoes off to fly on their airlines. Hell, I don’t think I’ve ever had to take my shoes off (or had water confiscated from me) in any airport outside the US. Note, I’ve flow in just about every Middle Eastern country (minus Iran and N Korea.) Why aren’t other planes falling to the ground?


OK, now I feel better.

Moose,

I am sorry to say that now MANY other countries are following the idiotic lead of the US and Britain (where this war on water began!) They are doing this so their planes can fly to US and other cities following the lead of the FAA requirements. In addition to the shoe carnival and the war on water, now there are body "pat-downs" and hand luggage searches in the jetways, in addition, to multiple exposure to X ray devices and walk through metal detectors, on the order to 2-4 times in each airport. This now includes Japan and Philippines as two examples. I have no doubt that many other countries are to follow this lead.
Heck, I was denied taking a small pineapple (after it was Xrayed two times) on a domestic Philippine flight, because it "might" have water in it.... hey that is what they said, not me.

Are we safer because they do these things to us now? NO. All just a "horse and pony show" for John Q Public, and may I say a public "workfare" program.

Robin

[Walter]

I’ve flow in just about every Middle Eastern country (minus Iran and N Korea.)

I didn't get the memo. When did North Korea move?

[Moose]

I didn't get the memo. When did North Korea move?

DOH, see, I was thinking about the countries in that region (not just the middle east) when I wrote that.

[Walter]

What region is that - the eastern hemisphere?

[Hipshot]

This past week, I flew to and from Washington D.C., and I feel safer. For both flights, everything that I had was X-rayed, and since I have an internal defibrillator, I received a thorough (and professional) hand search. I honestly can't imagine how I could have brought anything on board that could have done any damage.

After my return trip, I found a note that my checked bag had been opened and inspected. What was the difference between the bag on the return trip vs. the first? Well, on the return trip, I'd packed a bottle of hot sauce that was given to me at the conference that I'd attended.

Instead of whining about and disparaging Homeland Security, try to remember how you felt on 9-11-01. While (by definition) nothing is fail-safe, I think there's a far less likely chance of it ever happening again because of the security measures now in effect at airports.

Rick

Edited by Hipshot, 14 March 2007 - 03:45 PM.

[Moose]

Instead of whining about and disparaging Homeland Security, try to remember how you felt on 9-11-01. While (by definition) nothing is fail-safe, I think there's a far less likely chance of it ever happening again because of the security measures now in effect at airports.

This will never happen again because the passengers of the plane would never let it happen again. FWIW, they could have 5 people with large knives try to take over the plan, they would have 200 people tearing them apart as soon as they stood up.

So, how does not letting me take a nail clipper or bottle of water on a plane help? Oh, BTW, you can buy BOTH those items in the in gift shop right before you board the plane!

I remember how I felt BEFORE 9/11 when I flew. I often joked about how lax security (and I use the term lightly!) was. The flights now are not safer, because they take knitting neddles away from old ladies and they do not search young Arab men (because you don't want to be racist) is counter to security.

[dustbowl diver]

I fly regularly and just returned from a West Coast swing. While I would posture on the side of 'not feeling any safer' by given testimony to my mothers maiden name and a blood swatch of my first born, I am more intrigued by the number of people that continue to try to take said liquids through security let alone remove their shoes to pass through the damn x-ray machine!!

[Hipshot]

This will never happen again because the passengers of the plane would never let it happen again. FWIW, they could have 5 people with large knives try to take over the plan, they would have 200 people tearing them apart as soon as they stood up.

So, how does not letting me take a nail clipper or bottle of water on a plane help? Oh, BTW, you can buy BOTH those items in the in gift shop right before you board the plane!

I remember how I felt BEFORE 9/11 when I flew. I often joked about how lax security (and I use the term lightly!) was. The flights now are not safer, because they take knitting neddles away from old ladies and they do not search young Arab men (because you don't want to be racist) is counter to security.

Moose, you raise some very good points. You're probably right about it not happening again, at least in the same manner as it did on 9-11. In fact, a woman with whom I was friends in college was on board Flight 93; I realize that passengers would fight back. However, with the heightened security, it would make it harder for it to happen with a slightly different M.O.

I also agree with you that political correctness has no place in screening, although I should remind you that the biggest terrorist act committed in the U.S. prior to 9-11 was the Oklahoma City bombing, which was perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh, a corn-fed midwestern boy. Let's watch the Arab males between 20-30, but let's not focus so hard that we exclude other potential terrorists.

Best,
Rick