96 replies to this topic

[annasea]

So I'm thinking about regs... Where to start?

If possible, I'd prefer to buy used. The main pro being cost, of course, and the main con being condition. How does one know if one is buying a regulator set that's workable? What types of questions should one ask the seller?

What about servicing? I vaguely recall from my readings that the original owner of certain equipment is entitled to free, lifetime parts. Is this true? Does it apply to regs? In the long run, does buying new pay for itself? (Assuming free parts.)

Other than the first and second stage, what about the durability of an SPG, compass and octo? What does one need to look for when buying these components used?

I saw an advert for a Scubapro MK20 regulator set, octopus, depth, pressure, and compass in "good shape" recently. The asking price is $350 CDN. I'm reckoning it's worth looking into, but I don't know what to ask or what to look for.

[gcbryan]

Personally I'd buy new for the reasons that you've mentioned regarding free rebuild parts plus the fact that since you don't know anything about the used regs you will need to get them serviced before you use them and that will probably be around $100 or so.

Regarding the other pieces of gear that you've mentioned I suppose a used compass would be ok but I doubt that you will save very much. I would buy it all new.

If you need to buy used equipment I'd save that for lights, BC/BP, fins, etc.

Edited by gcbryan, 15 March 2007 - 02:03 AM.

[shadragon]

So I'm thinking about regs... Where to start?

I saw an advert for a Scubapro MK20 regulator set, octopus, depth, pressure, and compass in "good shape" recently. The asking price is $350 CDN. I'm reckoning it's worth looking into, but I don't know what to ask or what to look for.

If you are looking at a ScubaPro reg then buy new. I got my current SP MK 16 / R390 through my LDS on sale for $300 CDN. The SPG, depth gauge, compass and console was about $200 (Don't have the receipt in front of me). I have had the compass and depth gauge replaced free since then on warranty repair. The reg comes with free parts for life and as it is registered there will never be any problem getting it serviced, which I do annually.

As insurance goes up in price it is inevitable that shops will start to clamp down on gray market purchases in the future to protect themselves from litigation.

You can buy a used car that is in "good shape" and be stuck at the side of the road because of engine problems with little inconvenience. If you are at 80 feet when your second hand reg gives up the ghost then life gets a wee bit more complicated...

[Walter]

I vaguely recall from my readings that the original owner of certain equipment is entitled to free, lifetime parts. Is this true? Does it apply to regs? In the long run, does buying new pay for itself?

Yes. Yes. Yes. OTOH, the key is it applies only to certain equipment. Scubapro, for example, offers such a warranty on their equipment, all companies do not. It also only applies if you never miss a scheduled servicing. Miss one and the warranty is gone forever.

I've bought regulators both new and used. As long as parts are readily available, either should be fine. If buying used, I'd want a big discount over new, $350 for a used reg, doesn't sound like a deal to me.

Other than the first and second stage, what about the durability of an SPG, compass and octo?

The octo is a second stage. SPGs and compasses are usually fine, although SPGs will sometimes develop a slow leak where they connect to the hose. The good news is that's easily fixed in about 30 seconds. Often, that's a repair for which a shop doesn't even bother to charge. Make sure there's no air pocket in the compass.

[Cold_H2O]

On a reg I would only buy used if I knew the original owner and that they had taken care of it from day one.

Either that or be in tight with a great reg repair person who can look it over before you buy.
I have been told that I am a bit snobbish when it comes to regs.
And I am pure evil if I am diving with you and you let your octo drag...

I have seen too many regs drug thru the muck or not rinses after a dive. YUCK.
The salt crystals are tough on dive gear that doesn't get a quick rinse.

Edited by gis_gal, 15 March 2007 - 06:43 AM.

[MNJoe]

So I'm thinking about regs... Where to start?

I would highly recommend starting with your LDS. When I was looking for regs, I could not find a used one new enough and in good enough condition, cheap enough to offset the cost of servicing of it over the cost of my LDS servicing regs they sold me. Then on top of that, I didn't have to wonder what kind of abuse and miss use the regs had been through.

MNJoe

[dustbowl diver]

In todays age of internet and the ability to comparison shop scuba equipment locally and online, I would only go new. If I were to purchase used as gis gal pointed out, only if I new the person, dove with them frequently, and observed how they took care of their equipment after the dive.

[Moose]

So I'm thinking about regs... Where to start?

I agree with the wisdom here. Used gear is NOT money well saved when your life is in the balanced.

Where to start? First, find a good local dive shop. Then talk with them. Remember, this is the place that will most likely be doing the annual service and repairs. Make sure it's a brand they are familiar with. More then likely, once you have a good reputable dive shop, they will not steer you wrong. Yes, it may cost you a little more to buy from them, but trust me, this is money well spent. The relationship with your local dive shop is one of the most important you will have in diving.
What good is a getting a great deal on the best reg in the world, if you have to ship it out each time it needs service and are without if for weeks or months at a time?

Next, I seem to remember that you are fairly new to the sport. You may want to take some time to dive with lots of DIFFERENT rented gear. Find out what you like and don’t like. You may find that you want a computer on your wrist instead of on your gauge cluster. Or maybe you like having your backup air supply integrated with your BC inflator. If you never want to dive in water colder than 55 degrees, you don’t need to worry about environmentally sealed regs. These are decisions that are way too personal for anyone to tell you. But a conversation with a good dive shop owner will give you the pros and cons of each. Then you make a decision that is right for you. If you can’t make up your mind, rent the equipment first. Again, a good dive shop owner will see that they are earning a loyal customer that wants to understand the gear. If they are confident that you will buy from them, they will work with you. In fact, they may let to rent the gear for nothing. But if you spend hours talking with them, and then go buy off the internet to save $40, they will not be looking to help you in the future.

If you can’t afford the reg that you decide on, wait and save the money. Scuba is not a sport to do on a tight budget, IMHO. Wait and buy the gear that is right for you first. It’s a bigger waste of money to buy equipment that you will be replacing in a few dives. I’m sure most of us here have piles of gear that we spent good money on that we use as ‘backups” only.

For me, I will not buy scuba gear from anywhere BUT my local shop. Even things he doesn’t carry. I have him order it and I buy it through him, (Right now I’m having a hard time getting a fill adaptor for one of my Sherwood valves!) My local guy knows this. He has given me free rentals on gear, for as long as I need, whenever some of my gear is being repaired. He stays open late if I call him and tell him I’m on my way. Is he a little more pricy then other outlets? Only by a very short sighted view. The relationship I have with him is worth thousands of dollars more than I spend there, (which is thousands of dollars a month it seems!)

[Indydivegal]

I would definately make sure the person I knew took care of their equipment. I know of one person that I would buy from in a split second as he is "anal" about the care of his equipment and rinsing, drying things out well, servicing well, etc. However, there are two people from my shop I would NEVER purchase anything used from. They were recently in FL on a few dives and when they got back we all had lunch together and they were laughing about how they just took off their gear and through it in the back of the vehicle and left it over night and how it really smelled the next day. Yeah, to that I say buy new! LOL

[Geek]

If you are into servicing your own regs and need a bunch of them for deco tanks, etc. then going used would probably save you some money. However, I don't think that applies to most of us. Regarding the other equipment you mention, I would suggest:

For the octo, most tech divers want the same model as their primary first stage. The logic is that in an emergency the last thing they want to deal with is an underperforming octo. If you are planning on doing any cold water diving or deep diving you should consider this.

Regarding an SPG, these things are pretty rugged, but also pretty cheap. The tech community tends to go for the brass housing and glass face type of SPG and those can be had for $60-70 new. The best compass IMHO is the Suunto SK-7 and that is $55-90 depending on the type of mount. These items are so cheap that if you find a bargain on a used one go for it, but I wouldn't waste any time looking for used items.

It sounds like you may be considering an entire used Regulator and console. If so, plan on getting it serviced immediately as it will probably have been sitting for an extended period. Also, check the hoses for any damage. If there is any visible damage, then the owner hasn't cared for the equipment and is willing to risk your life on damaged goods. If so, walk away.

[PerroneFord]

By the time yhou buy a used reg set, and console or wrist instruments, get them checked and serviced, you've often saved nothing over buying new, and in some cases if parts need to be replaced (not under warranty) you'll actually spend more.

Since you plan on doing simple, warm water diving, I'd sugest purchasing a basic reg set like the one from Salvo, Dive Rite, or even the Zeagle Envoy, and be done with it.

In terms of instruments, I tend to like having them on my wrists. Compass would be an SK-7, SPG is brass and glass. I have a Dive Rite, but a dozen people sell them and nearly all of them come from the same Italian manufacturer so just choose.

It seems you are building something like a Hog rig, so plenty of people will be able to help you sort things out.

[annasea]

Thanks, everyone!

As I'm not in a position to buy right at this moment, I'm not in a rush to hit the LDSs for detailed info, but I did manage to call up one of the trustworthy ones that I'd actually buy from, and have a brief chat.

My thoughts are to buy from a well-known manufacturer in hopes of guaranteeing that it can easily be serviced while traveling. The LDS I spoke with suggested Scubapro, Mares, Apeks or AquaLung. I'm leaning toward Scubapro or Mares.

I seriously doubt I'll ever dive in water colder than 55 degrees so I don't think I'll spring for a reg that's environmentally sealed. Unless it's only a few dollars more. (I reckon it's much more though.)

The only component that I'd go the console route for is the SPG. A wrist mount compass is easier to access for me. But then this means that I'd pretty much have to buy a computer at the same time since I won't have room on my console for a depth gauge.

Another option may be to buy a used set on consignment from an LDS who's already serviced it. I checked the website of an LDS in Seattle and they seemed to have some pretty decent prices. (Mind you I wouldn't be the original owner so free parts wouldn't be applicable.)

Walter, the $350 CDN was for the whole shebang... Scubapro MK20 regulator set, octopus, depth, pressure, and compass. Assuming the gear is in good condition, I don't think that's a bad price. I think you're spoiled down there in FL ... you've got tonnes of dive shops to choose from catering to a large market. Things are somewhat different up here.

So any advice as to what to stay away from? I recall reading *negative* things about titanium and swivel, for example.

[PerroneFord]

Well,

I've give you *my* preferences, though you may choose something else.

Regs:

I am not that fond of ScubaPro though they make good regs. I avoid buying from companies that strong arm dive shops, so that lets off ScubaPro as well as Aqualung. Mares are not in the same league in my opinion. Apeks is a top reg and would be my top choice. They are distributed by Aqualung in the US (which is a problem for me) but can be bought directly out of the country with full warranty.

If the SPG is the only thing you'd put in a console, then you don't need a console. Just get the bare SPG like you saw my setup. It's simple and clean with no clutter.

You can get a depth guage on Ebay. I bought a nice scubapro (vintage) one for $25. Dove it for about 35 dives until I bought a computer. I still keep it as a backup.

The SK-7 on the wrist works great. But it's big. You might prefer an SK-6 which is also very nice, but you will need to hold your arm correctly to get a solid reading with it. For the diving you're doing, I can't see you needing a compass all that much. I've never bought one and don't plan on getting one anytime soon.

How are you planning on configuring your regs? Are you doing a long hose with a bungee backup, or the more common configuration?

[annasea]

<snip>
I am not that fond of ScubaPro though they make good regs. I avoid buying from companies that strong arm dive shops, so that lets off ScubaPro as well as Aqualung. Mares are not in the same league in my opinion. Apeks is a top reg and would be my top choice. They are distributed by Aqualung in the US (which is a problem for me) but can be bought directly out of the country with full warranty.

I've read comments about Scubapro's questionable business practices, too. I must say it's not very appealing. (Same with Aqualung to an extent.) I had a feeling that Mares wouldn't be all that great in terms of quality... based on my limited knowledge, I get the feeling that they're sort of on par with Tusa, for example. OK for fins perhaps, but maybe not for a reg. I'd be buying my regs at home so I'm guessing Apeks wouldn't be distributed by Aqualung. I'll ask about it though.

If the SPG is the only thing you'd put in a console, then you don't need a console. Just get the bare SPG like you saw my setup. It's simple and clean with no clutter.

Good news! Dollars have been saved! I remember your bungeed wrist bits but I can't clearly recall your SPG. I trust you anyway.

You can get a depth guage on Ebay. I bought a nice scubapro (vintage) one for $25. Dove it for about 35 dives until I bought a computer. I still keep it as a backup.

Before you bought your computer, where exactly was your depth gauge? Mounted on your wrist as well? I haven't seen one other than in a console so I'm having a hard time picturing it.

The SK-7 on the wrist works great. But it's big. You might prefer an SK-6 which is also very nice, but you will need to hold your arm correctly to get a solid reading with it. For the diving you're doing, I can't see you needing a compass all that much. I've never bought one and don't plan on getting one anytime soon.

Frankly, I can't see myself needing a compass much either, but I thought I'd be *responsible* and wear one, even if I rarely to never use it.

How are you planning on configuring your regs? Are you doing a long hose with a bungee backup, or the more common configuration?

Phft! Like you need to ask... bungeed octo, of course!

[Penguin]

While I am an AVID internet shopper, I buy nothing on the web when it comes to scuba. There are some warranty issues that can come into play if a manufacturer does not show a specific serial number being routed through an authorized distributor. The scuba industry as a whole has also been shrinking (or so claims the reports and stats). I think it is monumentally important to keep our scuba shops in business. One, for timely and easy access to equipment and parts and two, so that you don't end up with a single shop monopolizing a market (for those of us in the northern climate with fewer shops, anyway). Any good shop will be a wealth of information for you as well and developing and maintaining a good relationship with them will make everything better!

As far as equipment set-up, also consider the prevalence of distribution in terms of make and model. Unless you plan to travel with at least one back-up reg, having readily accessible parts can oftentimes be the difference in whether you lose dives or get repaired and continue with your diving itinerary.

I dive with the ScubaPro MK25/S600 titanium. I love it. It's light and it seems I am always pushing the airline weight restrictions when I travel so anything helps. However, it is expensive and unless you do a LOT of travel to remote areas of the world, there is better bang for the buck out there. ScubaPro regs also have a LOT of parts. The Apex is a great reg and has many fewer components in its makeup (I have one on order now).

Also check with your LDS. I know that my LDS is very generous in working with anyone who is loyal to them. Also, you may want to ask them if they will allow you to rent a variety of different reg makes until you decide which makes you more confident and comfortable as a diver. If you deal with them up front, my guess would be that you have a great chance at getting them to apply all of your rental expense against the cost of the new reg!!