15 replies to this topic

[novicediver]

I am in the New Orleans area and in need of a practice buddy. I have adopted the GUE/DIR standards so my buddy has to have the same diving philosophy. I am OW, AOW, EAN, Rescue Diver certified and took GUE F.
I realize that most practice will be in the Florida Springs and dont mind the travel, unless it is far down in central or south Florida. Occasional trips to Blue Grotto, Devil's Den and the like are ok but I would prefer more northern panhandle area springs, like Vortex, Morrisson, etc.
As my name implies, I am new at this and not ready for doubles, caves and the like. But if anyone is looking to practice buoyancy, trim, and basic skills such as kicks, OOG drills, etc, give me a HEY and let's see when we can begin.

[netmage]

I am in the New Orleans area and in need of a practice buddy. I have adopted the GUE/DIR standards so my buddy has to have the same diving philosophy. I am OW, AOW, EAN, Rescue Diver certified and took GUE F.
I realize that most practice will be in the Florida Springs and dont mind the travel, unless it is far down in central or south Florida. Occasional trips to Blue Grotto, Devil's Den and the like are ok but I would prefer more northern panhandle area springs, like Vortex, Morrisson, etc.
As my name implies, I am new at this and not ready for doubles, caves and the like. But if anyone is looking to practice buoyancy, trim, and basic skills such as kicks, OOG drills, etc, give me a HEY and let's see when we can begin.

Don't take this the wrong way... Far to often I've seen folks jumping on the bandwagon after taking fundies; thinking its the end-all-be-all and turning into mindless zombies thinking GUE is the only path to DIR; Its a philosophy - not a religion. Fortunately for me, I hooked up w/ two other really committed folks in class, at the time I was in Chicago, one was in W. Va, the other was in Pitt. Two of us were already tech, and the other was a noob on dive 20. Two or three good practice weekends was all it took to gel as a team and go in for the re-eval.

Remember to have fun on these drill dives... If the dive is 80% persperation and 20% recreation, whats the point... It great to see you taking that step so soon as a novice diver, and I was in your shoes not too long ago. I've fallen into a group down here in S. Florida thats fairly squared away and like minded... (Well 'cept the guys who just went rebreather... but thats another story...) and a few of us get up to the caves about once a month.

-Tim

Oh yeah, and don't take any crap from folks who label you a k00l-aid drinkin' nazi zombie.... They just don't get it or have based their entire understanding of it on a few bad seeds...

[novicediver]

Interesting that you say that. I took Fundies because I wanted to be a better diver. I cant say the course threw me in a whirl but I did learn a new philosophy that emphasizes safety and diving as a team. I do like the long hoses, gas planning, safety check ritual before diving and having a teammate instead of a buddy. There is something to be said for the "my gas is your gas and your gas is my gas" mentality.
Therefore, I ask for a practice buddy that employs the same techniques I am trying to become proficient at.

Edited by novicediver, 02 April 2007 - 07:46 PM.

[6Gill]

Now if only they offered a DIR solo diver course then you wouldn't have an issue.

[novicediver]

Now if only they offered a DIR solo diver course then you wouldn't have an issue.

a prime example of an oxymoron

[overseas]

Now if only they offered a DIR solo diver course then you wouldn't have an issue.

a prime example of an oxymoron

GUE/DIR is not the only way to go. It is one idea of several ways of diving. My full cave cert. is from the NSS-CDS. I have never seen/been taught any diffrent ways of doing gass planning. Everyone I dive with knows that that extra 1/3 of the gass is there incase someting happens. Dont get all wrapped up about diving only with DIR guys. PLeasedont become one of the divers that lables anyone that is not DIR a Stroke. Just because I wear my light head on my right hand and wear Chuck's instead of rock boots does not make me a Stroke. I am a very safe diver, and I wil dive with anyone that has good safe skills.

[PerroneFord]

These DIR discussions always go the wrong way don't they?

Anyone with a basic understanding of cave diving, should realize that the rule of thirds may not be enough to get the team home safely. Please plan accordingly.

There are any number of ways to do gas planning. I've seen GUE's way, the NACD way, and the IANTD way (where I took my cave training). All can be effective.

Wearing the light on the right hand does have some drawbacks, as does wearing it on the left. You simply need to choose one. Wearing it on the right means you're going to deal with a lot of excess light cord, it also means you're going to absolutely blind someone if you donate to an OOA diver. Both are manageable issues. It also means you are going to have some issues if you start scootering. Wearing it on the left means you're going to be switching hands often to deal with buoyancy, it also means you're going to need to deal with cord issues when you donate and the long hose come etiher over or under the light cord (depending on which camp you fall into).

DIR diver's generally choose not to wear rockboots. I know the WKPP doesn't. They use turbosoles.

Now all that said, there are good safe divers all over the place. And gear can't make you safe. Only a good mental attitude, and well practiced skills can do that. I have one foot in the DIR camp, and one foot elsewhere. Serves me well. My DIR buddies are quite happy to dive with me, and me with them. But many of my dives are done with CCR divers, or NACD/NSS trained cave divers. No issues there either.

[Latitude Adjustment]

When ever I'm in Florida I try to find WKPP on the radio but can't!

In NJ there are some divers I've dove with who profess to be DIR but as soon as they hit the water they are like everyother NJ diver, same day, same ocean buddies. I'm diving solo anyhow so it really doesn't matter to me.

I have my light head on my right hand too so it's aimed the same place as the camera but then I'm DEW.

[netmage]

In my execution of DIR, there are certain absolutes. Mostly having to do w/ the ideals of donation of the long hose, minimilism, streamlined config, i.e. being squared away; gear wise, physically and mentally. These are generally deal breakers for me.

Other items are like how a post on TDS a while back called the "fashion show"; computer vs. bottom timer, turbo soles vs. rock boots (or wetsuit booties in my case), pockets vs. clipping off spools. The world will not end if I don't carry wetnotes for a dive, or have rock boots, or if I dive a computer. Like most folks, my kit evolved. I won't pluck down $2K for a brand new cutom drysuit tweaked to the gills to emulate some ideology.

I use standard gases... whatever Fill Express banks... , usually either 32% or 40%. If I take in a bottle w/ leftover 40%, I'm not going to dump it just so I can stick w/ a standard gas. I'm going to top off w/ premix to end up somewhere in target for my next dive. And If I have gas (21/35) left over from my last dive on the Hydro, I'll top it w/ 36% or so to take the edge off my next dive on the Atria.

I'll admit it, I acknowledge the effect of narcossis - Helium is my friend. If I'm pushing 120-140', a little will take the edge off, heck even 8-15%. At 150+' I'm packing 21/35. But I'm not going to insist on 30/30 for the 80'-120' range.

[netmage]

When ever I'm in Florida I try to find WKPP on the radio but can't!

Isn't that the one w/ Les Nessman?

[PerroneFord]

The problem with starting to deviate, ESPECIALLY on mixed gasses, is that pretty soon, you're deco scehdules don't match. If you and I do a dive to 150ft for 30 minutes, and I'm on 18/45 and you're on 21/30, we are effectively going to be solo as we complete our deco schedules.

If you carry 40% for your rich mix, and I am carrying 50% or God forbid 80/20, we'll have to break the team to make things work for our deco schedules.

So the issue is not non-DIR = stroke, the issue is about conformity where not conforming puts the team at risk. Computer vs Bottom timer usually means nothing. Until I'm working off my tables, and your VR-3 want's a Pyle stop. I had that happen at Little River. We did the stop, I took the penalty, and deco'ed a bit longer at 20ft.

Rockboots are no big deal, just need to make sure your laces don't become an entanglement hazard. The Turbo Soles are so simple. Or just regular boots.

Some things just don't matter much though, as you say.

[overseas]

Even when we carry different gas mixes we all stay at the stop till everyone has cleard deco. Typically we only carry back gass (32%) and a deco bottle of O2. As far as my gass planning goes, high flow like ginnie we dive to full thrids. Low and No flow like Peacock and orange grove I turn at thirds plus 200. we give an extra 200 punds for increased breathing and the time it will take to et everything straight and headed to the exit. I am not trying to get on a soapbox here but it bothers me when someone will say that my style ofdivingis nto right or is unsafe (not saying anyone here has). I dive the way I do because it works for me and the people I dive with. I know its not a standard practice but I run the inflator for my wing off my right post ( I will post a pic of how its routed if anyoneis interested). The reason behind this is that say you are donating gas to an OOG diver and passing through the corflakes, keyhole, and then the lips. Since sharing gass can get tricky in high flow you stand a good chance of rolling off you left post somewhere in there. So god forbid that on last little bumpas you get shot out of the lips shuts down that post and breaks it off...If that happens you are now screwed. But with my inflator on my right post I can hold down both buttons on the inflator and breath. I have tried this, it is akward and clumsy but it beats dead! As long as everyone is safe and can explain any "odd" configurations i will dive with anyone!! Why dont we all stop this discussion and go jump in a hole in the ground somewhere?!

Chris-

[netmage]

Ahhh, another fun filled w/e up at the caves and the long drive home.... The gremlins were out in full force with drysuit issues at every turn... During my last outing I had a total flood at Ginnie with about 5 gallons of water down each leg... So I pulled out my backup and that lasted two 90min dives at Peacock, afterwhich I tore a wrist seal... Mental note: no one in Lauraville stocks wrist seals!

First dive was ~90 min Peanut-Main line-towards Challenge ~2100'
Second was ~99min Pothole-Past Olsen to Peanut line jump ~2100'

I pulled out my primary and the zipper was mighty finicky. Eventually the bum tooth on the zipper gave way and popped out. With a little "english" it zipped and I figured lets give it a go... We did a nice 60 min dive in Little River skirting the limits of the NDL.

LR, 61 minutes, Mainline To end of Serpentine tunnel (second arrow)

Unsuiting took a little assistance from my buddy, but it was bearable. We headed back to Dive Outpost and filled up for our final, a meandering path down peanut to the crossover, then back towards the the tunnel to cisteen... Only 2 gallons of water in my suit this time... Its getting sent off to Steve Gamble for a new zipper, and I might flip for a new exhaust valve too, my arm was definately wet!

Peacock 1, 97 minutes, Peanut-Cross over-Nicholson jump, ~2437'

Heading to the Keys this w/e for a double dose of the Grove....

Edited by netmage, 24 April 2007 - 09:00 AM.

[PerroneFord]

Even when we carry different gas mixes we all stay at the stop till everyone has cleard deco.

How do you plan your tables? Or do you just dive a computer? If we do a dive on say 32% to 100ft for 90 minutes, and all we have to deco with is oxygen, that's going to be a pretty simple dive. But if I carry a bottle of 50% to use on deco, and you use 40%, I am going to be on backgas during your first deco stop (thus increasing my bottom time). Or we blow past your best stop so we can get to mine at 70ft. This just leads to a mess. Standardizing mixes is easy, and makes perfect sense.

Typically we only carry back gass (32%) and a deco bottle of O2.

Then things get real easy. Do the dives, come to 20ft, and deco. It's carrying that second bottle of deco mix where things start to get REAL interesting.

As far as my gass planning goes, high flow like ginnie we dive to full thrids. Low and No flow like Peacock and orange grove I turn at thirds plus 200. we give an extra 200 punds for increased breathing and the time it will take to et everything straight and headed to the exit.

GUE has codified this concept into something called "rock bottom" or minimum deco. Same idea, for the same reasons, except "flow" isn't considered. The safety gas is always factored in.

I know its not a standard practice but I run the inflator for my wing off my right post ( I will post a pic of how its routed if anyoneis interested).

Standard to whom? GUE does it the same way you describe. I did a dive with the NACD president two weekends ago, and he runs his wing off the left post. I run mine off the right post for exactly the same reason you describe. The inflator mechanism acts as the backup reg in the case of a post failure.

Why dont we all stop this discussion and go jump in a hole in the ground somewhere?!

Because not everyone can dive all the time! I'm dry for a couple weeks, but I got in a dozen dives or so for April. I can't complain. I might get in a dive this weekend if all goes well. No more caves for me until my drysuit comes back in mid-June.

[netmage]

After all my issues, I was seriously considering plunking down for a 7mm..., a cheap one is $160... for $60 more I can get a new zipper installed.... so thats the route I'm going - I do like my new (to me..) suit... fits like a glove. The zip pockets and socks are annoying - but I can deal w/ them...

Oh - the other fiasco... Switching between suits had me swapping p-valve components... Anything over 45 minutes and its mandatory for me... Between dives at LR and Peacock on sunday I somehow misplaced the M-M hose barb adapter... Geesh! Nothing was going right... I have like 10 of them... at home! So we got a little McGuyver and sacrificed a standard BIC pen, gutted it and cut to length and it worked flawlessly....! Save that for your field repair manual....!