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Important Story for Seattle Parents


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#1 jextract

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 10:46 AM

SEATTLE — A Web site created by a pedophile is a virtual "how-to" manual, complete with the best places in western Washington state to see little girls, and tips on how to avoid getting caught by the police.

http://www.foxnews.c...,262700,00.html
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#2 Moose

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 11:21 AM

SEATTLE — A Web site created by a pedophile is a virtual "how-to" manual, complete with the best places in western Washington state to see little girls, and tips on how to avoid getting caught by the police.

http://www.foxnews.c...,262700,00.html


Damn, that guy's site is DOWN! :banghead: (Yes, I know this is a serious issue.)

However, one of the biggest challenges for any solider in the US is to understand and accept the fact that not only does this guy have the RIGHT to post it, but that we will DIE for his right to do so. But with freedom comes with things and ideas you will not like.

Make NO mistake,
I despise all manors of "hate speech" and sites that promote these types of activity.
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#3 Cold_H2O

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 11:35 AM

I understand as an American we all have the "right" to free speach in this case free posting but there has got to be a line where "freedoms" stop when "wrong doing" starts.
Well Behave Women Rarely Make History ~ Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Formerly known as gis_gal and name tattoo'd for a small bribe!

#4 Moose

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 12:12 PM

I understand as an American we all have the "right" to free speach in this case free posting but there has got to be a line where "freedoms" stop when "wrong doing" starts.


Yes, when a crime OCCURS. Note, there is no crime being commited.
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#5 Cold_H2O

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 01:28 PM

That is a sad thing.
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#6 Racer184

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 02:27 PM

To me it is more believable that some cop / cop agency created this website as bait than for me to believe that anyone would attract attention to oneself like that.

#7 Moose

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:52 PM

To me it is more believable that some cop / cop agency created this website as bait than for me to believe that anyone would attract attention to oneself like that.


This is another possiblity.

Again, while these website might sickness us, it should also serve as a reminder that you do have rights that many people could never dream of. If people on the fringes of our society are protected to post garbage like this, you know that your right to state much more approprate ideas is well protected!
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#8 Brinybay

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 10:55 PM

I understand as an American we all have the "right" to free speach in this case free posting but there has got to be a line where "freedoms" stop when "wrong doing" starts.


Yes, when a crime OCCURS. Note, there is no crime being commited.


Advocating criminal activity is not protected by free speech, e.g. it would be illegal for me to post a Website on the best banks to rob. The fact that he has "freedom" to post this crap is nothing to be proud of, it's a disgrace, there has to be limitations. This is one sick bastard.

Edited by Brinybay, 30 March 2007 - 10:58 PM.

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#9 Moose

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 07:33 AM

Advocating criminal activity is not protected by free speech, e.g. it would be illegal for me to post a Website on the best banks to rob. The fact that he has "freedom" to post this crap is nothing to be proud of, it's a disgrace, there has to be limitations. This is one sick bastard.


You are wrong on this account.

You could write a book on, not only the best banks to rob, but you could include a step by step method to do it. All of that IS protected.

It's a slippery slope. If that WASN'T protected, then we could go after every hollywood type that every made a movie about bank robbing.

Check out www.2600.org

It's a website for a comunity of people that believe people SHOULD understand the weakness of the world. It not only helps fix them, but it promotes inovation and better security.
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#10 drbill

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 07:39 AM

I understand and respect where Moose is coming from, but isn't it a crime that this isn't a crime? Heck, banks "deserve" to be robbed for the way they are ripping people off with high interest "credit." Innocent young children do not deserve to be approached by people like this guy.

#11 Brinybay

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 08:11 AM

Advocating criminal activity is not protected by free speech, e.g. it would be illegal for me to post a Website on the best banks to rob. The fact that he has "freedom" to post this crap is nothing to be proud of, it's a disgrace, there has to be limitations. This is one sick bastard.


You are wrong on this account.

You could write a book on, not only the best banks to rob, but you could include a step by step method to do it. All of that IS protected.

It's a slippery slope. If that WASN'T protected, then we could go after every hollywood type that every made a movie about bank robbing.

Check out www.2600.org

It's a website for a comunity of people that believe people SHOULD understand the weakness of the world. It not only helps fix them, but it promotes inovation and better security.


Fictional movies are an entirely different matter. Advocating or inciting others to commit crimes IS illegal. With all due respect, trying to say our military is fighting for the likes of this sick fk is a stretch, if not an insult to our military members.
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#12 Moose

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 09:08 AM

Fictional movies are an entirely different matter. Advocating or inciting others to commit crimes IS illegal. With all due respect, trying to say our military is fighting for the likes of this sick fk is a stretch, if not an insult to our military members.


OK, I just want to make it clear that with 18 years in the Army, I haven't met anyone that would support this sicko or his ideas. But it is truly a massive step in understanding to realize that this IS what America is about. His *actions* are what we believe in (NOT his content.) There are countries where you can’t even talk about peaceful ideas (Chinese limits on freedom of religion come to mind.)

If I was to write a book about robbing a bank, wouldn't it help bank managers understand weaknesses in the banking system? Would it help them develop methods to prevent the robberies? Would all that happen without anyone getting hurt? (As opposed to someone ROBBING the bank and them learning their lessons afterwards?)
Now, a parent can go to a website and learn how to PROTECT their child. The truth is that the predators are out there. They are looking for ways to commit a crime. This website can provide parents a way to prevent the crime by understanding the mindset of the predators. They can teach their children about the threat. They can help the kids NOT make themselves a victim. I, and every military leader, would WELCOME the enemy’s playbook!

Back to the slippery slope argument, what is unpopular thought today may lead to better understanding tomorrow. Many great ideas start out as "radical though." While I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying what the website promotes is a great thought, there are other ideas out there that could easily offend others. If we don't protect this guy’s speech, yours is not protected.

For example, there is a very large contingent of people that believe we are created directly from God and that evolution is fiction. While I'm not commenting on the legitimacy of EITHER side of this, these people could be offended at the idea of evolution on the web. Next thing you know, sites that talk about any origin of life are removed. Thought is stifled. Everyone loses.

Again, this guy is on the fringe, and having him out there ensures that more rational though and ideas are protected.
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#13 drbill

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 09:12 PM

Fictional movies are an entirely different matter. Advocating or inciting others to commit crimes IS illegal. With all due respect, trying to say our military is fighting for the likes of this sick fk is a stretch, if not an insult to our military members.


Having been a target of so-called animal rights groups when I was V.P. of the Catalina Conservancy and we were removing feral goats and pigs, I can tell you for a fact that telling me you want to kill me is NOT a crime. It happened at least 11 times. We reported all the incidents I can remember to the local sheriff, and were told that unless the threats were actually attempted or successfully implemented there was nothing they could do about it. Freedom of speech.

#14 ScubaDrew

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 12:07 PM

SEATTLE — A Web site created by a pedophile is a virtual "how-to" manual, complete with the best places in western Washington state to see little girls, and tips on how to avoid getting caught by the police.


I know I am jumping in late here, but I think that this may actually BE a crime, if he is instructing on how to do something that by its nature can only be criminal. I have heard of people being prosecuted for stuff like that. Inciting criminal behavior at any rate is NOT protected speech, that much I know. Freedom of Speech is more about allowing people to view dissenting opinion on politics and religion, and likely stemmed from Old English custom of beheading those who spoke out against the Crown.

If you are holding a legal, permitted rally on the steps of Town Hall, and you start ranting and raving about the Mayor and his vacation bill, and someone flips a car because they got fired up, you can be help criminally liable for that. I think anyway, I am not a lawyer so I might have some details missing. Perhaps the DA can interperet his web site as dangerous and file charges that way.

On an ironic note, how good can the advice be, if it is on the news, didn't he get caught? :lmao:

Dr Bill, in NJ saying you want to kill someone is a crime, called Terroristic Threats. I am not at all sure what the penalty range is, but you could have filed a restraining order against the people making the threats. At the very least they would not be allowed to contact you or come within so many yards of you, violating that can bring jail time.
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#15 Moose

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 12:48 PM

I know I am jumping in late here, but I think that this may actually BE a crime, if he is instructing on how to do something that by its nature can only be criminal.


That is the slope that we, as Americans, should NEVER go down. I don't mean this to sound like a flame to ScubaDrew or anyone else, but I really want people to understand my point.

If you REALLY believe in "Freedom of Speech,” AS it was defined in our constitution, it means that people need to allow things that they don't personally like to be freely spoken. It means that people NEED to be allowed to spew whatever trash from their mouth that they believe in. There can be no lines*. (see below)

If someone wants to talk about how to be a sexual predator, so be in. In fact, I would tell parents to WELCOME this site. Why? Because it gives you the "enemy’s" playbook. I wish the site was up so I could give you an example. But if he states, "look for kids that do <insert action>." Then you can advise your kids to not do that. Or if he states, “The corner of Main street and 1st Ave is a great place to meet kids. Parents could keep their kids away from there, while the police could conduct surveillance there.

Also, there are some fine lines between explaining criminal behavior and telling people how to be a criminal. So much so, that much of the "how to protect yourself" information out there could fall into verboten speech.

Take the computer virus industry. Did you know that it's illegal for an individual to store or collect computer viruses? It is. So you say, "well, why would anyone need to do that?" Because you trust companies like MacAfee and Norton to create the filters, right?

Well, what if these were the companies that CREATE the viruses? (which I do believe is the case.) As individuals, you can't collect the virus, therefore you can’t study them. You can’t try to understand what they have in common. But I can tell you that, if it was easy to collect and study them, I bet that you would start to find commonalities in them and it wouldn’t take long to start figuring out that the people that have the greatest amount to gain in the virus market are the people that generate the threat as well.

*= I do believe that TELLING people to do something is where speech turns criminal. If I say that “to steal a car, just wait in front of a 7/11 and wait for someone to leave it running as they walk in.” I’m not violating any laws. But, when I say, “GO steal a car by, just waiting in front of a 7/11 and wait for someone to leave it running as they walk in.” I’ve crossed into criminal activity.
Moose
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