24 replies to this topic

[Bubble2Bubble]

I have been diving the same kit for years and this year I am looking to stream-line my diving gear. I like the Idea of having a 2nd stage on a necklace but I'm not sure if it should be my primary reg or octo ? whats the norm for this configuration.....well... those who use a 2nd on a necklace which way do you suggest.

Bubski

[pir8]

I have been diving the same kit for years and this year I am looking to stream-line my diving gear. I like the Idea of having a 2nd stage on a necklace but I'm not sure if it should be my primary reg or octo ? whats the norm for this configuration.....well... those who use a 2nd on a necklace which way do you suggest.

Bubski

General Rule of Thumb or 2nd as the case may be: Short hose 2nd on necklace, primary on long hose to donate. Donate your primary because the needee will know that it was working causing less likely to panic and you should know that your 2ndary works.

[JimG]

I like the Idea of having a 2nd stage on a necklace but I'm not sure if it should be my primary reg or octo ?

If I could offer a quick suggestion to make this discussion a little less confusing - do not use the term "octo". You have a "long hose reg" (LHR) and a "short hose reg" (SHR). The "long hose reg" is the one you donate.

Most people who use a necklaced reg have the LHR as their primary (i.e. the one they breathe), and then the SHR as the backup on the necklace. The hose on the LHR can be anywhere from standard length (usually 34-36") up to 7 feet. There is no requirement that the hose be a particular length, but most folks find it easier to use something that is at least 40". Five-foot and seven-foot hoses are also quite common.

In that scenario, you donate the reg from your mouth to an OOA diver, and then use the backup for yourself.

[BubbleBoy]

I keep my spare 2nd on the long hose and connected to my shoulder D-Ring with a tension release device. I then stuff the loop of the long hose down my side into a garter strap that I keep around my thigh. I also have a tension release built into the neclace on my short hose second that I normally breath from.

I realize this is not entirely DIR compliant, but, I do it for two reasons.

1) For some reason I just can't get comfortable with the idea of purposely wrapping a hose around my neck. (Maybe its because I was born in Kansas at a time when the preferred method of execution was still hanging.)

2) My primary 2nd has a dedicated high flow port and hose that I haven't found a long version of yet.


However you do it, one thing I found is that a long hose is actually easier to keep tight against your body if you stow it well. Shorter hoses tend to float out to your side more with a higher risk of getting caught on something.

[PerroneFord]

Thanks for your thoughts.

In an effort to prevent perpetuating a myth that NEVER seems to die. the long hose in a DIR/Hogarthian config is NOT wrapped around the neck. It is merely anchored behind the neck. Unless you have a larynx on the back of your neck, there is no danger of suffocation.

A properly stowed long hose is indeed far less of an entanglement hazard than the standard length scuba hoses. The problem, is what constitutes "properly stowed". That's a discussion for another day and another thread.

-P

I realize this is not entirely DIR compliant, but, I do it for two reasons.

1) For some reason I just can't get comfortable with the idea of purposely wrapping a hose around my neck. (Maybe its because I was born in Kansas at a time when the preferred method of execution was still hanging.)

2) My primary 2nd has a dedicated high flow port and hose that I haven't found a long version of yet.


However you do it, one thing I found is that a long hose is actually easier to keep tight against your body if you stow it well. Shorter hoses tend to float out to your side more with a higher risk of getting caught on something.

[netmage]

I like the Idea of having a 2nd stage on a neckless but I'm not sure if it should be my primary reg or octo ?

If I could offer a quick suggestion to make this discussion a little less confusing - do not use the term "octo". You have a "long hose reg" (LHR) and a "short hose reg" (SHR). The "long hose reg" is the one you donate.

Most people who use a necklaced reg have the LHR as their primary (i.e. the one they breathe), and then the SHR as the backup on the necklace. The hose on the LHR can be anywhere from standard length (usually 34-36") up to 7 feet. There is no requirement that the hose be a particular length, but most folks find it easier to use something that is at least 40". Five-foot and seven-foot hoses are also quite common.

In that scenario, you donate the reg from your mouth to an OOA diver, and then use the backup for yourself.

There was a guy on the boats this past w/e diving normal length hoses, and he had his primary bungeed around his neck... don't quite understand the what/why of that decision unless he was expecting to tox or something...

[PerroneFord]

Yea, I dove with a guy a couple weeks ago that had his primary bungied around his neck. He had his octo on a hose intended to be for his primary. I nearly had to put my head in his armpit to do an S-Drill. What a PITA that was.

[JimG]

In an effort to prevent perpetuating a myth that NEVER seems to die. the long hose in a DIR/Hogarthian config is NOT wrapped around the neck.

I think the concern is that if someone yanks the reg out of your mouth, that the hose will somehow get wrapped around the front. That scenario is unlikely, if the diver is in the proper horizontal position. It's possible that pulling the reg from behind and to the diver's left could cause a problem, but that problem also exists for a traditional setup.

2) My primary 2nd has a dedicated high flow port and hose that I haven't found a long version of yet.

I think a lot of people in that situation use the large port for the backup reg (on a short hose), and then put the long hose on one of the normal-sized ports.

[Capn Jack]

On the "toxing" topic - I had one Long Hose diver tell me their necklaced secondary was on a very tight bungee so if they were toxing they wouldn't spit out their reg.

Two thoughts -
First - my understanding of CNS toxicity is there is little if any warning unless you have practiced in a chamber and know your own symptoms (an interesting Jim Bowden story he related to me) - so would you have time / presence of mind to switch to the bungeed secondary?

Second - would any reasonably tight bungee keep your reg in if you were doing the funky chicken?

Comments?

Edited by Capn Jack, 17 April 2007 - 07:55 AM.

[JimG]

I nearly had to put my head in his armpit to do an S-Drill. What a PITA that was.

Was this for a cave dive? Not that it would matter to me - personally, I would have called the dive right there.

[JimG]

On the "toxing" topic - I had one Long Hose diver tell me their necklaced secondary was on a very tight bungee so if they were toxing they wouldn't spit out their reg.

A toxing diver is more likely to bite through the tabs on the mouthpiece, so I would not count on a necklace keeping the reg in my mouth in that situation. Not to mention the fact that the diver will not be breathing anyway, since they will most likely be having a laryngospasm at the same time. I think the idea is that when they do resume breathing, they will have an air source in their mouth, which might prevent the inspiration of water.

I could see the argument for a diver popping the necklaced backup in if they felt they were losing consciousness, but I don't think it will help much for OxTox. I agree that the time from onset of symptoms (assuming you even notice them) to the actual convulsion would probably not be much.

Your best line of defense for both those situations (OxTox or LOC) is an attentive, properly trained buddy. Most divers are in no position to help themselves if something like that happens.

[BubbleBoy]

There was a guy on the boats this past w/e diving normal length hoses, and he had his primary bungeed around his neck... don't quite understand the what/why of that decision unless he was expecting to tox or something...

The main reason I use a necklace on my primary second is convenience when I'm out of the water and my reg is out of my mouth. It just makes things a little quicker than clipping it off to a D-Ring when I'm not using it. As I mentioned, I do have it rigged with a connector so that it comes open with a good tug. So, if someone needs to grab eith one of my regs while diving they can get it without putting me in jeopardy.

[Scubatooth]

Capn Jack

a o-tox hit is basically a seizure and could be a grand-mal type (the type of seizure everyone thinks of with extremity shaking and rigidity) but also there is a possibility that a oxtox hit could present it self as a absence seizure where the person may just loose consciousness for a brief period of time and not know it. beyond this you might get some warning or signs of a impending Seizure such as seeing things (aura) or a funny taste, visual or auditory sensation may be a sign but you have to be able to recognize them for which more times then not people dont recognize them. In any case the persons buddy better be on top of there game because its not going to be pretty. The pathology of a 02 hit and a seizure are just about the same thing.

Biting through the mouth piece is a definate possibility as a person actively seizing will have a clenched jaw (and you never put a bite block in because the person seizing could break there jaw from biting down). your best bet is to be holding the reg in place of your buddy and waiting for everything subsiding and then getting them to the surface.

JimG a laryngospasm is possible but wouldn't be during the active seizure/hit because during a seizure the diaphragm and muscles covering the ribs are paralyzed because of the disfunction in the brain and the person will not be breathing at all. afterwards would be when it would happen because brain is in the recovery phase because alot of muscles will relax after the workout they got from the seizure. Plus on top the hypoxia caused by the seizure/hit is going to be a bigger problem underwater.

Did i go over anyones mask?

Tooth

[netmage]

Your best line of defense for both those situations (OxTox or LOC) is an attentive, properly trained buddy. Most divers are in no position to help themselves if something like that happens.

Maybe second... 1st line is planning mod and gas....

[PerroneFord]

Was this for a cave dive? Not that it would matter to me - personally, I would have called the dive right there.

No, this was for a shallow spring dive. Max depth about 30ft average about 10ft, distance to water I could stand up in was no more than 400ft and I was wearing doubles. In a cave scenario, this wouldn't leave the parking lot.