13 replies to this topic

[TraceMalin]

I'm finding air gunning to be an effective tool in determining a technical student's problem solving ability regarding manifold failures. It surpasses the rote learning associated with valve drills and tests a diver's awareness that an emergency is occurring and how to go about fixing the emergency. I've also had great success with mask removal and valve shutdowns creating OOG. While these methods are controversial, I have discovered that if the student is provided adequate training time in shallow water to experience these problems and learn to manage them, the diver produced is far more comfortable and confident in the water and can be task loaded to the extreme and not stress, but manage to triage all emergencies, problems and nusances calmly.

Does anyone else use air gunning or other controversial training methods? If so, have you seen greater results in your students compared to not employing these methods at the technical level? For those of you who have experienced such training, have you been air gunned or found out what running out of gas would actually be like? Did you find this helpful in your training? So far, my students enjoy it.

Edited by TraceMalin, 11 September 2007 - 04:35 PM.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I was air (well, actually Trimix) gunned during my Trimix training. I found it to be extremely effective.

When you are doing one of these "drills" in real life (or what you think is real life), that is when you either realize that you know what you are doing or that you don't. If you do things properly, it is a big confidence builder because you have actually experienced the feeling of: "What was that?! Oh, s***, a major gas leak coming from somewhere behind me! Okay, it sounds like it is coming from the primary/secondary regulator. Shut down the leaking post (and potentially change regs, etc.). Okay, the leaking has stopped. Signal my buddy, and let's abort the dive."

When it happened to me, I did not know it would be coming nor did I know that this was going to be part of the training. So, I had the full effect and desired outcome of the learning experience.

The real confidence builder of it was that I had just had my regulator serviced a few dives before. So, rather than being scared or worried, I was with my service tech for botching the job, and I was planning all sorts of evil ways ( ) that I was going to get even for such an offense even as I was doing the drill. It was only after I completed the shut down and signal that I saw my instructor and buddy , and that I finally realized what was going on. I never had time to become scared because I was too busy doing the drill and plotting a murder.

[Latitude Adjustment]

Turning off their air and flooding the mask used to be standard practice in early PADI and YMCA training but I guess that scared away too many students.

[Cold_H2O]

Would you please explain what "air gunning" is.

[Scubatooth]

somebody correct me if im wrong , but air gunning is taking a second stage sticking it behind a divers head and holding the purge button down till the valve drill is done completely????

[ScubaDadMiami]

Essentially, Tooth is right. However, it is usually done with the air nipple outlet (instead of a second stage since this will use less gas), in some parts more commonly known as a "dog dick" or "monkey dick." It looks like the balloon inflators you will see on Helium bottles.

[TraceMalin]

Essentially, Tooth is right. However, it is usually done with the air nipple outlet (instead of a second stage since this will use less gas), in some parts more commonly known as a "dog dick" or "monkey dick." It looks like the balloon inflators you will see on Helium bottles.

Or, what we up here in the cultured northeast call an "air gun."

Air guns used to look similar to pistol garden hose heads or the nozzles that you often find on the compressed air pumps at gasoline service stations. The design was improved to be streamlined and most look like black bullets or torpedoes without posing the entanglement hazards of the old handled or pistol nozzles. I prefer using an air gun to a second stage, but I've used second stages for training.

[ScubaDrew]

I'm finding air gunning to be an effective tool in determining a technical student's problem solving ability regarding manifold failures.

Ok, I find this a little hard to believe. I saw an episode on Mythbusters where they were shooting guns into the water, and the lethal penetration depth shows that guns are rather in-effective u/w.

[Scubatooth]

ScubaDrew

Airgunning is where you put a dust off nipple and put it on your low pressure inflator hose and with this the instructor puts it behind the head of the instructor and causes the bubbles to flow simulating either a first stage or valve on the doubles failing and causing air to escape. It also causes a persons heartrate to go through the roof.

in drills like this you have to react quick or you will soon be out of gas as they will drain quickly

Tooth

Edited by Scubatooth, 12 September 2007 - 11:55 AM.

[ScubaDrew]

Thanks Tooth, I was just trying to be funny, I guess it didn't translate well...

[Scubatooth]

yeah that does happen.

if your gonna shoot someone underwater get combat tupperware (glock) that or get a speargun or bang stick.

[ScubaDrew]

yeah that does happen.

if your gonna shoot someone underwater get combat tupperware (glock) that or get a speargun or bang stick.

Not to hijack the thread, but the Glock wouldn't do you much good. They ( Jamie &Adam) fired all manner of guns, and found that the water slowed the bullets down very quickly. Like less than 2 feet underwater and you are safe. Surprisingly, the more powerful rifles, like a 30-06, were even more impotent, as the rounds actually exploded into tiny pieces on contact with the water. Even the steel jacketed rounds IIRC. One of the few "guns myths" that they were not able to disprove...

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread on sneaky training tactics...

[pir8]

Several years ago Guns & Ammo tested the Glock by leaving it underH2O for about a month and then bringing it up and sucessfully test fireing it. But not fireing it underH2O. I think they did it in Hawaii.

[bottomtime]

In close quarters or contact distance a hand gun fired underwater will kill you just like on land...DEAD... move beyond a few feet and the effect is nill,,,,,other than the blast ,,, that is why bang sticks are effective contact weapons ,,,, the blast is what gennerally kills the not the bullet

Edited by bottomtime, 12 September 2007 - 08:48 PM.