18 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

Hey everyone I need your help! The dive industry's only trade show is once a year in the fall. First it was in Sept and then Oct and this year it was in Nov. As they keep pushing the show out further and further it gets harder and harder to get trips in place and posted for the New Year timely. (DEMA as the tradeshow is known as is where all the travel deals are given and people figure out where they will be diving the upcoming year.) However with this show getting later and later each year we are finding it harder and harder to get the trips set up, posted and then filled in time especially for trips early in the year.

So I need your help. How do we fill our trips better?

Here is what we are faced with. If we don't fill all the spots on a trip we have to pay for the spots. And...if we have to pay for empty spots then we can't offer as many trips or we won't be able to offer any trips at all. One solution is to request less spots but then we don't get the advantage of having the whole boat to ourselves. Or if we do a landbased operation we risk not having enough spots for more people when they want to join us. SingleDivers.com also guarantees your trip with us meaning if at least one person signs up we will run the trip sans cancellations from the vendors or mother nature. Another solution is to cancel any trips that don't appear to be selling but that would violate our policy that we never cancel a person's vacation...others do it all the time but not at SD. And finally still another option is to run fewer trips say 1 every 2 months instead of one a month?

We do ask where you want to travel and we even ask about specific destinations when we are getting close to making a final decision.

However we seem to have to have a crystal ball to get it right...so shy of that...how can we do better?

Some suggestions so far:

1. Post trips further out regardless of specials rec'd from the diving trade show. If the price drops that is great but at least people can plan better.

(This is good idea and we will be working 2009 trips as soon as we are finished with 2008 trips.)

2. Run more trips that allow spots to be given back closer to the trip date.

(This is also a good idea but a challenging one to implement. Most landbase operators require 4-6 months advance notice to give back spots without penalty. Most liveaboards require 6-8+ months.)

3. Run cheaper trips so that people can afford to dive two trips rather than just one big one.

(Again an excellent idea and one that you'll see us trying for 2008. Most of the trips in 2008 are in the $1000 to $1300 range plus airfare. A number of trips are below $1000 and the venues include domestic as well as international destinations. We are hoping this suggestion works and helps us to fill more trips!)

4. Start a newsletter so that you can tell more members about the trips especially if they haven't been on the site in awhile.

(This is one of the top suggestions we've rec'd and our next big goal! In the meantime we will be doing a 'quickie newsletter' to get the word out about our trips! )

5. Allow for payment plans so that people can budget for trips better.

(SD has been doing this for awhile now. We always offer a cash discount for paying early and we have a payment schedule posted as well as working with individuals with special needs. If you want to travel...we can help and its a 'win win' for both of us! So let us know!)

6. Run special pricing discounts that lower the price of the trip.

(SD has done this in the past and we always strive for the best pricing for our members. However we also have to make enough to cover our operating expenses and continue to offer great trips or soon we'd have to shut the doors. However we will always try to offer discounts where possible to help fill trips or just make our trips the best value for the money no matter who's offering it!) And we do offer early payment discounts as well as premier member discounts/rebates that all reduce the price of the trip.)


So far these are the main suggestions we've gotten. Anyone else have others? We really need your help in filling our trips! And that includes ideas on how to do it better as well as finding more people to travel with us.

p.s. If you are wondering which trips we need the most help on check the Saba St Kitts trip Feb 2-9 and the Utila trip Mar 8-15.

[WreckWench]

WOW! I just had two members who were planning another destination for Feb decide to join us on the Saba trip. The really amazing part is that they both have already done this trip and had a blast but were hoping to do something new. However helping to ensure that SD is around for more trips was enough for them to change their plans and opt to do this trip!

Yea!!! 2 down and 3 to go... "T minus 32 days and counting".

And you both for your generous support!

[a_fl_mermaid]

Have you considered contacting Dive clubs directly and maybe offering their members the same $25.00 back if they book thru the local club. That provides incentive, and if the clubs are not big enuf to get in on the trip action, it provides their members with more options for trips.

[Latitude Adjustment]

WOW! I just had two members who were planning another destination for Feb decide to join us on the Saba trip.

Don't get too excited, last year you lost two because you couldn't make up your mind where the trip was going.

I'm not sure I follow your blond logic on DEMA's date being the problem. What special prices, many of the trips are the web posted pricing. If it's the same price or even a little higher I go with SD because I have friends here.

1. Post trips further out regardless of specials rec'd from the diving trade show. If the price drops that is great but at least people can plan better.
You posted the Wakatobi trip farther out but it's still lacking details like 2008 prices that have been available on their site for a while.

4. Start a newsletter so that you can tell more members about the trips especially if they haven't been on the site in awhile.
Will it have trip details like the ones from the LDS and dive travel agents or be just another teaser?

[fbp]

Well, my biggest problem is finding what trips are offered and when.

If there were a simple Bulletin Board with the trips simply listed, and estimated pricing... something like this and then the links for more details, but "Stick it" at the top so one could say... Hmmm... what's going on in Nov or I want to do "The Coz" or where haven't I been. Something like this?

Jan - Cozumel $1500
Feb - Dominica $1800
Mar - Roatan - AKR - $1800
Apr - Fiji - $2900...

Something like that so all one has to do to get an idea shedule and costing wise they can. Then link them to the detail page.

I simply get lost trying to look around in different threads to figure out when and where...

Just my $.02 worth...

These things are planned so far in advanced that it's helpful to see what the options are...

Hope that helps.. I'm interested in the Curacao in Nov and just happen to stumble accross it by accident...

ps. I don't think the pricing affects the Go-no go if it's just a few $$ off... if you want to do a trip, whether it costs $50 or $100 or a little more shouldn't make a big difference... 10% discount is nice, but I'd be going regardless... I dunno, maybe it does make a difference..

Edited by fbp, 27 December 2007 - 09:45 PM.

[WreckWench]

Thank you guys! These are all excellent comments and can be implemented fairly readily. As an aside to the trip posting delays...getting a date with a resort in advance and then having to wait for the correct year's pricing can be daunting. For example I've had the date for Wakatobi for quite some time but not the 2008 pricing until much later. Adding another side trip such as Bali to that major trip and you've now doubled the work. Doing this once a year like most clubs or shops is not an issue. Doing this once a month or even once every other month is killer. However in order to get people to go on trips this must be resolved and it will.

Part of issue we've faced is that SD has grown faster than it can keep up infrastructure wise. This is good and bad. We need full time staff and support with no way of paying for that assistance. Even something as simple as reliable bookkeeping and payment processing would be a tremendous step in freeing up time to finalize trips quicker and track the issues down that prevent a trip from being posted.

Of course if the principal had not gotten married last year and in the process of moving to SC while trying to phase out a full time day job...I'm sure she'd have a bit more time to accomplish everything.

That aside... getting trips posted faster is vital and a top priority. Having a variety of simple ways to find out about trips is always critical. Thank you for that suggestion Frank. In thinking about it I think I see the problem. If you come directly to the forums then you will miss many of the things we've done to help people find our trips. If you come via our homepage you'll see the following:

Shortcuts to finding Trips via SingleDivers.com:

www.singledivers.com click on tab called trips
www.singledivers.com click on scrolling banner with trip names
www.singledivers.com click on UpComing 2008 trips box on lower left column
Surface Interval Forums under ANNOUNCEMENTS AND MARKETPLACE first subforum is "Please Read First" and there is a trips quick link there
Surface Interval Forums under TRIPS, TRAVEL AND ACTIVITIES! 3rd subforum is "Upcoming SD GROUP Trips!" Where you will find the 2008 Trips, the balance of the 2007 trips and the Trips You Missed subforums.
And finally if you click on the calendar in the upper right corner you will see most of our trips. This is not always up to date but we are trying. This also appears at the end of the Surface Interval Forums where the stats are such as number of members, posts etc. It show the next dive trips coming up.

I am thinking that we can do what is called a sticky and it will show up at the top of every forum you are in much like my "I'm Out of Town and Fingrabber is in Charge" message. This post could summarize as Frank suggests and give a link to each trip.

Good suggestions to you both! -ww

[WreckWench]

I'm not sure I follow your blond logic on DEMA's date being the problem. What special prices, many of the trips are the web posted pricing. If it's the same price or even a little higher I go with SD because I have friends here.

Yes many people will travel with SD simply to meet other single and buddyless divers or to meet back up with friends. However we do try to provide better pricing wherever possible (including early bird payment discounts) or extra freebies (such as free nitrox or upgrades to oceanview rooms) you won't get on the net as well as trips that don't exist on the net (such as our Nov Belize trip and our Cozumel, Cenotes, Whalesharks trip.) And if you are a premier member or above then every trip is $25 less if you request your membership rebate.

1. Post trips further out regardless of specials rec'd from the diving trade show. If the price drops that is great but at least people can plan better.
You posted the Wakatobi trip farther out but it's still lacking details like 2008 prices that have been available on their site for a while.

When I posted our date for Wakatobi 2008 pricing was not available. When it was, Bali's 2008 pricing was not available. When it was air was not available. Now that all the components are available I'm trying to complete it along with all our other 2008 trips.

Having said this...getting trips determined, confirmed and then posted is our biggest challenge right now. We will be looking diligently at ways to improve in this area.

4. Start a newsletter so that you can tell more members about the trips especially if they haven't been on the site in awhile.
Will it have trip details like the ones from the LDS and dive travel agents or be just another teaser?

It would be a summary with a link to the full details on the site. In some cases it would be a teaser if I knew the dates were firm but I did not have all the details to post it. Is this what you'd like to see?

[fbp]

(Apologies, I can never get the spacing right. I try posting in HTML, then TEXT and Non_line breaks etc.. still can't get it to space (return) correctly... without going word by word... it keeps double spacing....
so there it is.. apologies.....)

Shortcuts to finding Trips via SingleDivers.com:

www.singledivers.com click on tab called trips
=This is what I'm talking about, too confusing, lost in the dates/ Pinned/ destination – hard to read. The summary should link to the inside of these pages for the details.

www.singledivers.com click on scrolling banner with trip names
= Same place, same issues


www.singledivers.com click on UpComing 2008 trips box on lower left column
= Same place, same issues


Surface Interval Forums under ANNOUNCEMENTS AND MARKETPLACE first subforum is "Please Read First" and there is a trips quick link there
= Same place, same issues

Surface Interval Forums under TRIPS, TRAVEL AND ACTIVITIES! 3rd subforum is "Upcoming SD GROUP Trips!" Where you will find the 2008 Trips, the balance of the 2007 trips and the Trips You Missed subforums.

And finally if you click on the calendar in the upper right corner you will see most of our trips.
= then have search month by month – short attention span. I'd simply like to see a simple listing with links to the details..

The all lead back to the main issue.

To me, it's just too confusing to read all the pinned, listings, full, spots left, booked etc and trying to read it all. Too much information on the titles.
Just a simple summary as described above linked to the forum thread for that particular trip.

Use the "Announcement" Upcoming Trips in Month order with just the destination and estimated pricing if available. NOTHING else heheh... or it gets too busy and confusing. If they want the details, they'll click on it, but this way the month and destinations are easy to read like the example above.. also, believe you can post the announcement all over the forums and probably on the front page portal too..
It might work if you cleaned up the titles like:

From this: (so where is the destination? Cenotes are the caves right?? or is Yep? the place.
Pinned: NOW BOOKING! July 26- Aug 2 2008 WHALESHARKS!!! Yep Holbox & Cozy & Cenotes!
3 Days Cozy, 1 day Cenotes & end with WHALESHARKS!

To this:


20080726 - July - Cozumel - $1800 apx

or

200807 - JULY 26th - Cozumel - $1800 apx

Anyway, you get the idea,
Just trying to help...

(the 20080726 will sort the trips in yyyymmdd order on the forum so you don't have to use the 'pinned'.)

Edited by fbp, 27 December 2007 - 11:36 PM.

[shawnabbott]

I am game for more trips but have a jan. trip to curacao, march trip to kauai, and july trip to tahiti already in 2008. (and hopefully wakatobi and curacao again with SD)...For me this means it is difficult to go in feb. as my son's father is squealing already about keeping him during my trips that he considers close together (dec/australia, jan/curacao, even though a month apart). Now, the march and july trips INCLUDE my son so he can't squeal about that!

[WreckWench]

I am game for more trips but have a jan. trip to curacao, march trip to kauai, and july trip to tahiti already in 2008. (and hopefully wakatobi and curacao again with SD)...For me this means it is difficult to go in feb. as my son's father is squealing already about keeping him during my trips that he considers close together (dec/australia, jan/curacao, even though a month apart). Now, the march and july trips INCLUDE my son so he can't squeal about that!

Thank you girl! I really appreciate the support! Hopefully you'll be on another trip soon!

[WreckWench]

Shortcuts to finding Trips via SingleDivers.com:

www.singledivers.com click on tab called trips
=This is what I'm talking about, too confusing, lost in the dates/ Pinned/ destination – hard to read. The summary should link to the inside of these pages for the details.

Frank the problem you seem to be referring to is message boards in general. They all function essentially the same. I am not aware of software that lets you take you into the details of all the trips from one tab. It could take you to a summary which is what you may be suggesting and then that summary links to the specific details. We have tried it before and its a bear to keep current but perhaps we need to try it again. We need to do everything possible to fill more trips.

To me, it's just too confusing to read all the pinned, listings, full, spots left, booked etc and trying to read it all. Too much information on the titles.
Just a simple summary as described above linked to the forum thread for that particular trip.

Use the "Announcement" Upcoming Trips in Month order with just the destination and estimated pricing if available. NOTHING else heheh... or it gets too busy and confusing. If they want the details, they'll click on it, but this way the month and destinations are easy to read like the example above.. also, believe you can post the announcement all over the forums and probably on the front page portal too..
It might work if you cleaned up the titles like:

From this: (so where is the destination? Cenotes are the caves right?? or is Yep? the place.
Pinned: NOW BOOKING! July 26- Aug 2 2008 WHALESHARKS!!! Yep Holbox & Cozy & Cenotes!
3 Days Cozy, 1 day Cenotes & end with WHALESHARKS!

To this:


20080726 - July - Cozumel - $1800 apx

or

200807 - JULY 26th - Cozumel - $1800 apx

Anyway, you get the idea,
Just trying to help...

(the 20080726 will sort the trips in yyyymmdd order on the forum so you don't have to use the 'pinned'.)

Perhaps a poll to see if simpler titles are more appealing. In the case of our Mexico trip simply saying Cozumel is not accurate as we are doing Cozumel, Talum and Holbox. Perhaps that was a bad example on your part but I get the idea.

Again perhaps a poll to see if others want simpler titles. If that was the difference between filling trips and not...then my next step is to make them all simple!

I've tried the date sort approach but have found using the pinned concept works to show which trips are ready for booking as compared to which trips just have firm dates. Again if this is confusing too many members it can easily be changed.

[fbp]

Frank the problem you seem to be referring to is message boards in general. They all function essentially the same. I am not aware of software that lets you take you into the details of all the trips from one tab. It could take you to a summary which is what you may be suggesting and then that summary links to the specific details. We have tried it before and its a bear to keep current but perhaps we need to try it again. We need to do everything possible to fill more trips.

Yes, thank you, I'm somewhat familiar with message boards in general..
Here's an older sample I've used just to get the idea - it too could use some clean up eh?
A summary at the top of the forum aka Sticky/Pinned with the simple listing.
Perhaps the details listed below.
I dunno, just trying to help...
Hava good one...

[WreckWench]

Hee! Hee! Its late for me...did not mean for my post to read that you did not understand message boards as I've known you've had your own for quite some time. What I meant to say was I was not sure how to work around the problem. I see if you use a consistent date nomenclature you can force your posts to be in chronilogical order. However they change order on this site based upon who posts in them and not the title. Did you encounter the same with your system?

Again I do think a poll to see if others think the titles we use are too confusing and therefore preventing them from being able to get timely info and travel with us is a great idea. If I can do it tonight I will otherwise it will be when I get back from Bahamas.

Again thank you for your help...you ARE being helpful. Just trying to understand what you are saying but I think I get it now! kamala

[WreckWench]

Have you considered contacting Dive clubs directly and maybe offering their members the same $25.00 back if they book thru the local club. That provides incentive, and if the clubs are not big enuf to get in on the trip action, it provides their members with more options for trips.

This could be a great idea! I'll put some thought into how to do this.

[fbp]

However they change order on this site based upon who posts in them and not the title. Did you encounter the same with your system?

There should be an option in the ADMIN control Panel to sort threads by" Title or last post or...." on mine you can click on the title and it will auto resort right on the Tread, but not seeing it on yours, so you might have to go into the Admin CP to make the changes.

Another option would be to standardize the titles to allow for easier reading and put the highlights in the detail/description area of the thread, but keep the title clean... and readable...

I can only speak for myself, if looking for triips, I like to see just the location, dates and estimated cost all in one spot and if interested, to be able to click on the details...
anyway,whatever...
have fun in the Bahamas..
Looking forward to the Curacao Trip...
err, yes, the one in Nov? ;-))

Toodles...

ps Embarassingly admitting to 6 websites (Help me!!!), 2 have the Bulletin boards and yes, they are a pain to work with, but???? heheh... lator...
http://www.poolesweb.com/


Have a good one..

Edited by fbp, 28 December 2007 - 08:04 AM.