21 replies to this topic

[uwfan]

I've read a lot from Annasea's adventures in research on equipment but I still have some questions (BTW thanks Annasea and those who posted). Is one product better than another-particularly for women- when it comes to trying to do the backward roll entry into the water without hitting your head on the first stage at the top of your tank? Back when I did my OW I tried several times to enter the water from the pool edge this way and it never failed that I hit the first stage with my head --OUCH! I am starting my search for equipment and had someone at my LDS explain that the Oceanic Hera BC has a thicker plastic back so that the tank sits away from your body to keep this painful event from happening.

I'm not sure if it would really make a big difference for me, the diving I have done has been Giant Stride entry...but it would be great to get some opinions.
Thanks!

[dustbowl diver]

Great question! I can't say that I have had this experience as I can only recall doing back rolls only a couple of times! Looking forward to hearing the thoughts of others as well!!

[divzac]

IMHO..... it has been my experience that the "OUCH" factor can be greatly reduced by lowering the tank/valve, by raising the BC when you put it on the tank. I would tend to think that bringing the tank "away" from your body would just create more drag in the water. I personally prefer to configure my first stage hoses beneath the yoke instead of above. This lowers the profile of the first stage as well. ......just my thoughts mind you, Zach

[scubafanatic]

....as divzac says, you need to experiment with properly adjusting the tank height position relative to your BC...additionally, you can wear a neoprene hood/beenie and a neoprene mask strap for extra cushioning. Also, pay attention to how you mount your 1st-stage to your tank......there are some 'piston' style 1st stages that are very tall IF you mount them the 'wrong' way, but work just fine if you orient them 180 degrees from the 'tall' orientation such that they don't stick up any higher than the tank valve itself. I've included a photo (see attachment) of two ladies, each diving a 'tall' piston type 1st-stage so that you can see the proper way to orient the 1st-stage and route the hoses. (the dark wetsuit lady is diving an Oceanic, the orange wetsuit lady is diving an Atomic)

Karl

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[swfladiver]

alot of BCs have a tank height adjuster strap, cuts down on readjusting 4 or 5 times before each dive. If yours doesn't it wouldn't be hard to add one.

[NJBerserker]

As dumb as this may sound. Have you tried looking at your weightbelt on the entry? I mean put your chin down like you're trying to stare at your weightbelt. That is how I was taught to fall in martial arts. It will distance your head from the 1st stage.

[divzac]

As dumb as this may sound. Have you tried looking at your weightbelt on the entry? I mean put your chin down like you're trying to stare at your weightbelt. That is how I was taught to fall in martial arts. It will distance your head from the 1st stage.

Aaahhhhh grasshoppaaaa speaks truth

[netmage]

I dive a BP/W w/ a STA... It uses two cam-straps to attach the tank. When mounting the tank, I mount the top cam strap as high as possible, just at the break in the crown. If I lift my head, my head hits the reg..., guarenteed. Today I made the mistake of bringing my head up fairly fast, and wham.... it really smarted...

There's only one set of mounting holes on the STA and plate, so no tweaking... It may just be the nature of using two cam straps... A number of traditional BC's only use one strap to secure the tank and allow for a 'low rider' look, which I never really thought was secure and have seen come loose many times...

If the issue is purely backrolls, I'd stick w/ the form fix.... look to your navel, one hand on the mask and reg, the other on the bc inflator and roll back...

If your also diving a long hose, when back rolling the loop around my neck almost always flys over my head... likely from not being properly anchored.

-Tim

[peterbj7]

I don't know why the term BP/W has come about. It implies that if you use a wing you must also use a backplate. That just isn't so. Many people (myself included) like to use a wing but prefer it with a soft harness and no backplate. I use a backplate when I need the added rigidity it provides, but with a simple twinset and maybe a side-sling or two that isn't the case. I've dived with four tanks across my back and for that I needed a backplate, but otherwise I don't like the constricting feel it gives.

[Latitude Adjustment]

my LDS explain that the Oceanic Hera BC has a thicker plastic back so that the tank sits away from your body to keep this painful event from happening.

Thanks!

The farther you move the tank away from your body the harder it will be on your back and shoulders out of the water. Buying another BC is not the answer to your problem but it will make your LDS happy.

As others have said, make sure the first stage is in the down position. I've seen a lot pointing up which creates a lot of problems besides hitting the back of your head.

Keep the tank valve and first stage even or below the top of the BC or wing and you can't hit your head.

[Dennis]

Some of the two strap BCs keep the tank up higher than I would like. The Scubapro strap lock allows for a lower tank position and is extremely secure. If it is done correctly, the tank cannot come loose. However, using a lower tank position and looking towards your middle should fix this problem. I would bet that your tank is set too high on the BC. After you get in the water, move your head as far back as you can. If you hit your 1st stage, your tank is too far up on your BC.

[BubbleBoy]

This is one of those tradeoff kind of issues as I see it. I like to have my tank riding a bit high, whatever it’s mounted on. This tends to help me with my trim in the water. But, it does expose me to the head bump issue. It’s not just when making back roll entries either. Wave action can also toss your head back pretty quickly too. I remember they used to caution us about that when doing shore entries in my basic training. “Don’t look up”, they said, “or you can get smacked in the face by a wave”. Then your head hits your valve and you get knocked unconscious.

As some have already pointed out, it may be something that you just have to recognize and be attentive too. Keep your head down in high impact or turbulent situations. I almost always wear at least a 5 mil hood while diving, and I use a padded mask strap too. That helps a lot.

Or maybe some good inventor can come up with a tank mount that is easily adjusted while diving? Set it low for the entry and then adjust it to your liking while diving. Don’t expect me to do it though. If I take on one more project, I won’t have time to do any diving.

[diverb0b]

Wearing of crotch straps also helps as well as keeping head bent down.They keep your BC and tank in same place as well

[uwfan]

Thanks everyone for your info. I have a couple questions.

I dive a BP/W w/ a STA... It uses two cam-straps to attach the tank. When mounting the tank, I mount the top cam strap as high as possible, just at the break in the crown. If I lift my head, my head hits the reg..., guarenteed. Today I made the mistake of bringing my head up fairly fast, and wham.... it really smarted...

There's only one set of mounting holes on the STA and plate, so no tweaking... It may just be the nature of using two cam straps... A number of traditional BC's only use one strap to secure the tank and allow for a 'low rider' look, which I never really thought was secure and have seen come loose many times...

If the issue is purely backrolls, I'd stick w/ the form fix.... look to your navel, one hand on the mask and reg, the other on the bc inflator and roll back...

If your also diving a long hose, when back rolling the loop around my neck almost always flys over my head... likely from not being properly anchored.

-Tim

Okay, it's been 12 years since I've gotten wet, so you'll have to forgive my ignorance...what is an STA?

Wearing of crotch straps also helps as well as keeping head bent down.They keep your BC and tank in same place as well

Is anyone diving with a crotch strap on the Dry Tortugas trip? I'm puzzled what they are for...benefit, etc. I won't be messing with anyone's stuff...but I'd love to see what people have on the trip - I rented BCs and regs/gauges when I dove 12 years ago and things like weight integrated BCs were a novelty then...seems like standard equip now. I think I need to see some of this in action before I decide just what to buy.

[Latitude Adjustment]

Thanks everyone for your info. I have a couple questions.

Is anyone diving with a crotch strap on the Dry Tortugas trip? I'm puzzled what they are for...benefit, etc. I won't be messing with anyone's stuff...but I'd love to see what people have on the trip - I rented BCs and regs/gauges when I dove 12 years ago and things like weight integrated BCs were a novelty then...seems like standard equip now. I think I need to see some of this in action before I decide just what to buy.

I'll be using my travel BP & W on the trip which has a crotch strap. It's main purpose is to keep the BC from floating up on your body which is more of a problem on jacket style BC's than BP&W's. My old Oceanic BC always had to be pulled back down after a giant stride. I added a crotch strap and it worked but it looked Rube Goldberg

UWfan, If you are renting gear for this trip I could bring my stainless 6 pound BP with 36 pound wing for you to use. It doesn't have weight pockets so you would need to use a weight belt minus the 6 pounds. With AL tanks and a 3 mil that's not a problem but with a Steel tank that doesn't leave you any or little ditchable weight. Let me know, Ray