Jump to content

  • These forums are for "after booking" trip communications, socializing, and/or trip questions ONLY.
  • You will NOT be able to book a trip, buy add-ons, or manage your trip by logging in here. Please login HERE to do any of those things.

Photo

Why did you do it?


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#31 PerroneFord

PerroneFord

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,303 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 September 2008 - 11:50 AM

A couple of questions ... Perrone, I notice you say cave/cavern on some of the places you dive. What is the difference between these two?


A cavern, is by definition, that portion of a cave or natural overheard where daylight is still present. Once you penetrate far enough such that daylight is not longer present, you have enter the cave. If it is night time, and there is no sun, you are necessarily in a cave. If daylight is obscured by silt in the water, clouds, etc., then you are in a cave.

I can tell you from experience, being in a cavern, when you lose daylight reference and have not followed the rules, is a terrible feeling. You feel like you've invited the reaper over for tea. Nothing I ever want to do again.

I must reiterate. I do not recommend this type of diving for most divers. Open water is much more fun and friendly. Not to mention forgiving.

#32 VADiver

VADiver

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 829 posts
  • Location:back in VA,,,for now
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:GUE T2/C1
  • Logged Dives:400+

Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:09 PM

I can tell you from experience, being in a cavern, when you lose daylight reference and have not followed the rules, is a terrible feeling. You feel like you've invited the reaper over for tea. Nothing I ever want to do again.

I must reiterate. I do not recommend this type of diving for most divers. Open water is much more fun and friendly. Not to mention forgiving.


I haven't been in a cave yet (just cavern) but I do go into wrecks to explore. I guess it's the same feeling when you’re inside of a wreck and someone (without the proper skills) decides to follow your team inside and ends up silting out the place. That has happened several times off NC. Lucky for me the wrecks aren't too difficult to navigate, but it isn't a nice feeling navigating through silt.

#33 PerroneFord

PerroneFord

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,303 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 September 2008 - 08:58 PM

I can tell you from experience, being in a cavern, when you lose daylight reference and have not followed the rules, is a terrible feeling. You feel like you've invited the reaper over for tea. Nothing I ever want to do again.

I must reiterate. I do not recommend this type of diving for most divers. Open water is much more fun and friendly. Not to mention forgiving.


I haven't been in a cave yet (just cavern) but I do go into wrecks to explore. I guess it's the same feeling when you’re inside of a wreck and someone (without the proper skills) decides to follow your team inside and ends up silting out the place. That has happened several times off NC. Lucky for me the wrecks aren't too difficult to navigate, but it isn't a nice feeling navigating through silt.



Vinny, wrecks at least offer some clues as to where you are. Walls, doors, openings. This situation offers NOTHING. No directional clues whatsoever. Very scary.

#34 peterbj7

peterbj7

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:San Pedro (Belize) & Oxford (UK)
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor
  • Logged Dives:over 4000

Posted 13 September 2008 - 10:51 PM

Interesting thread. I first experienced scuba in a pool in London back in the '70's, and progressed through the BSAC system (very much like army boot camp in those days) almost to the Sport Diver stage (somewhere between PADI AOW and DM, but with a lot of rescue and boat skills included). I didn't complete Sport Diver because I got fed up with the amount of time it was taking (three evenings per week plus the whole of every other weekend) and I dropped diving in favour of a more restful sport, skydiving. I spent the next decade doing that, becoming a freefall instructor along the way. At the same time I was also ski racing in the winter (I had been doing that for some time anyway) and white-water kayaking in the summer (ditto), with occasional work intervals to break it up. Oh, at the same time I also learned to fly and took that as far as an instrument rating, with "specialties" including aerobatics, float planes (did that in Canada) and a mountain rating (including landing/taking off on snow - did that in the French Alps). And I did a bit of motorcycle racing, in the vintage sidecar class.

Circumstances changed, and I largely stopped skydiving (boredom) and flying (cost). That freed up a lot of time (though I had by then also taken up mountain biking in a big way, racing once a month) and when on a trip to Egypt (general tourism plus some desert walks) I happened across Na'ama Bay, close to and now subsumed into Sharm el Sheik, on the Sinai peninsula. There I found some people scuba diving off the beach (there weren't any buildings then, though now it's a concrete jungle) and thought I'd give it a try. Because I didn't have any credentials with me I did a PADI OW course as a way of getting into the water, and was hooked by actually being able to see things that were interesting, compared with my experiences years earlier in England. After the OW course I went straight into the AOW course, mainly because it seemed a good way to continue diving.

That trip confirmed me as a diver, so as soon as I got back home I went to a local dive shop, bought some gear, enquired about further courses, and booked myself on some trips to sites around Britain. One of the first ones was a week in Scapa Flow, so before that I got a drysuit (but not the training that should have gone with it) and did a few "local" dives to get familiar with the gear. Then off to Scapa and 3 or 4 dives a day with the first couple to 150-170ft. Talk about baptism by fire.

All of this just served to show me how little I knew and how much there was to learn, so progression through courses seemed obvious. That progression was though in the "tech" field - I was an IANTD trimix diver before I became a PADI DM, and I'd already done some fairly significant wreck penetrations. Although I never took any instruction in penetration I did it in the care of people who were highly experienced, and what I learned at that time I have since discovered was "best practice". You don't need an instructor to learn, and of course the pioneers never had instructors. I learned, for example, not just how important it was to lay a line but how in many cases in wrecks that line needed to be of braided steel, not fabric. And how important buoyancy and finning style were.

Fundamentally that's where my diving education stopped. I subsequently became an instructor (rec and tech) and enjoyed passing on my hard-earned knowledge, but probably the only significant step I've taken since those days is with CCRs. Working in diving has paradoxically lessened my desire to experiment and try new things, so although I've dived caves from time to time over the past 20 years I rarely do it and don't have any formal credentials for it.

So to answer the original question - don't do courses for their own sake, but only as a way of improving and extending your own diving. And that only if you're motivated and driven to do it. I know lots of strictly recreational ocean divers who went sufficiently far in formal courses that they feel comfortable with what they do, and they have no desire to go any further. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Go as far as YOU want to go, then stop. Don't stop diving, just don't stop pushing back the envelope.

#35 NJBerserker

NJBerserker

    Meeting folks

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Location:Toms River
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Rescue Diver/ Nitrox/ DAN DEMP/ TDI Dive Medic
  • Logged Dives:~75

Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:48 AM

I took my rescue course soon after my AOW. . . some may say too soon. However I feel my reason for taking it somehow justifies the rush. Most of my training that I have done or am currently in the process of is directly related to the type of diving I like to do and where I like to do it. In the cold NJ waters there is no one to hold your hand. No "divemastering" as ther is in the tropics. There is also much more emphasis placed on self reliance than on the buddy system. Basically, if you're not able to take care of yourself down there, no one wants you on the boat. Ergo AOW is the MINIMUM certification for boat diving in NJ. I took the rescue course earlier on not because I wanted to rescue others, but to be better able to rescue myself. It was and is still the most rewarding class I have taken. Especially all that you learn about how to prevent accidents in the first place. Although most of that is review, you can't emphasize them enough. After gaining more experience the same reasons guided me to take the DAN DEMP and TDI Dive Medic courses. However now I was also wanting to be more knolegeable about helping others as well. You never know when you may be the only other person on a boat or beach and may be required to provide assistance. I for one would never want to feel helpless or inadequate in that situation. I must also agree with PeterBJ that experience is the best teacher. I don't have my deep or wreck specialties yet (the class got cancelled), yet I feel very comfortable deep and diving on wrecks. I have all of my more experienced buddies to thank for that. :cool2: :twist: It is those fine people as well as my training that have prepared me for NE Wreck Diving. I also try very hard to train myself to overcome the panic instinct. Although it's only been tested once, I think I did ok. I hope soon to take these skills with me into the tech world. In summation, the training that you undertake should be combined with practical experience with people you trust in an effort to get you to where you want to be with your diving. We all have different goals and different roads to reach them, but the rewards are the same in the end. Safe Diving.
Proud Member of the Cooper River "A-Team"

#36 VADiver

VADiver

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 829 posts
  • Location:back in VA,,,for now
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:GUE T2/C1
  • Logged Dives:400+

Posted 14 September 2008 - 03:17 PM

Vinny, wrecks at least offer some clues as to where you are. Walls, doors, openings. This situation offers NOTHING. No directional clues whatsoever. Very scary.



I guess once I'm finished with Tech 1 I'll take Cave 1 and head down your way. You can be my tour guide through the caves.

#37

  • Guests

Posted 24 September 2008 - 08:31 PM

I always wanted to dive. Sea Hunt, J Cousteau, National Geographic, Discovery Channel, PBS, Animal Planet... you name it, if it had water on it I was watching it. I was certified in 1995 because I thought it would help me with graduate school. Yep that's right... grad school. At the time I was working on my MS and had applied to the Florida Atlantic University program in Autonomous Underwater Vehicles (robot submarines) in the Marine Engineering Department for my PhD. Yep I'm a dorky clownfish for sure but that is another story entirely. :birthday:

That was my excuse to get certified anyway. :respect:

My first introduction to diving was NOT pretty. My class was the instructors first class and apparently he wasn't trained well. The shop owner can be best described by any of several anatomical parts which are usually kept hidden from the public. I prefer one unique to the male anatomy personally. The divemasters were cocky and arrogant. On many occasions the DM's just rolled their eyes and walked away when questions were asked. Students that didn't progress at the rate they wanted were put over in the dunce side of the pool (thats how we referred to it at the time) and pretty much ignored. We were told we needed more attention and they didn't have time to give it to us. There were about 5 of us that were deemed not good enough to instruct. After I was certified they told me to not bother to dive since they only certified me because I was taking the class for college credit and they didn't want me to get an F. I was told that I was unsafe and had no business in the water. Apparently, my death was acceptable to them though since I still received a cert card. In retrospect, I think this attitude was because I didn't buy enough equipment through them and do it soon enough after starting the class. I had terrible eyesight (-9.0 diopter lenses) and needed a very expensive prescription mask that I could not afford at the beginning of the course so I bought it at the end of the course instead and borrowed other peoples gear instead. I also borrowed gear from some certified divers I knew instead of renting it since the mask pretty much wiped out my funds for that month. You don't have alot of money when in grad school and kind of have to scratch to make things work when you can. They didn't see it that way. :thankyou: :canada:

The damage was done. For twelve years I wanted nothing to do with diving. My experience was the people were terrible jerks and I just didn't want anything to do with it. Had enough... I literally threw away the cert card (found the stub many years later) and didn't go to FAU even though I was admitted unconditionally. That is one of my biggest regrets, no PhD that I really wanted in a field I really wanted to be in. But I never forgot about it and wondered what if. I wasn't really doing anything else except going to work and coming home and I had money now. I was bored and lonely and not too happy since work was pretty much my entire life and it just didn't seem worth it. I had the laser eye surgery a few years back and now have perfect vision. I was still watching diving shows religiously. One day I was feeling sorry for myself for being such a poor diver and found the SD site while searching the web. I thought "All Right, I don't have an excuse anymore, I'm gonna try it again and go on one of these trips, dangit!!!" The next day I started getting ready since I figured I had a long way to go. :birthday: True story.

Since I had such a horrible certification experience I really wanted an instructor to say I was safe. I took a refresher after 12 years and the AI that did the refresher could not believe I had been out of the water for 12 years. He said I did better than most people with basic OW who were recent divers. Then I took the advanced class and had no problems, just sailed through it even though it was my first time in open water in 12 years. Still, I was beat up SOOO badly by the first shop/instructor that I wanted yet another instructor to tell me that I was ok in the water, so I immediately took the Rescue class. Excellent experience and I had no problems at all. That was all in murky water in north Texas. AFter three professionals concurrences, I felt like I had solid basic skills at that point. I didn't feel like an expert, just knew enough to dive safely and slowly get better at it. :birthday:

The rest is history. I did my first trip with SD and was completely comfortable in the water but felt like I knew my limits. But more importantly, I learned that the entire diving community is not a bunch of buttheads. Some are, and when they are they have perfected the art, but most are pretty cool people.

So that is my long winded story. The morals to the story are
1) there are some REALLY REALLY REALLY bad shops/instructors out there and you shouldn't let one of them bring you down,
2) advanced instruction will make you more confident and hopefully safer, and
3) I write WAAAYYYY too much since I barely talk in person!!!

Hopefully, you will all learn the irony in that last statement soon enough. :birthday:

Scott

#38 pmarie

pmarie

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 496 posts
  • Location:Central East Fl
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Playing at Divemaster
  • Logged Dives:500+

Posted 24 September 2008 - 10:06 PM

I went beyond AOW for the education and to be a better diver. Part of being a better diver is making difficult decisions that may not always be popular or may be subject to peer pressure. I am not too proud to call a dive. I've done it on more than one occasion and never made any bones about it. I called out on my second dive this past weekend as I had gotten more than a slight headache at depth. Took a nap and worked on my tan. I have been playing at DM for more than one year and this is partly due to my instructor having a FT Navy job and partly because I want to have fun. The education and experience are enlightening.

I took cavern and did not do the dives as I was not happy with my buoyancy. My poor instructor just did not know what to do with me when I said "I'm not happy." "Not happy at all!" A personal goal of mine to finish cavern. I learned more from that course than almost anything else dive related. It brought home exactly how finite some things can be. How a body responds to stress, and how differences can be dramatic and/or traumatic and working to control of your body in a given situation. I so very much value the skills that I did take away with me from that class even though I did not yet complete the dives.

#39 Kuraman

Kuraman

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 203 posts
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:IDC Staff Instructor
  • Logged Dives:Over 1000 now, quit logging and quit counting

Posted 24 September 2008 - 10:44 PM

I took advanced, because it was required to do night dive where I started diving (I know it is not even part of the AOW course anymore). Took Wreck specialty for obvious reasons, I really wanted to feel good about openetrating some of the wrecks in Indonesia. Took Rescue to gain confidence, DM to dive free, OWSI to make a little money while diving.

But I am like you, I am a warm water diver, never could see the pleasure in freezing while diving, quit other outdoor activities because of this.

Good thing I live in SE Asia again, :thankyou:
Formerly known as "DixieDiver25" but changed for a nice donation to SingleDivers.com. Kuraman means 'Turtle Man".

#40 Dive_Girl

Dive_Girl

    I need to get a life

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,513 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR/Vancouver, WA USA
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:PADI Course Director, EFR Instructor Trainer, DAN DEMP Instructor, rec-Trimix & Normoxic
  • Logged Dives:too many logged, too many not logged...:)

Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:29 AM

1) there are some REALLY REALLY REALLY bad shops/instructors out there and you shouldn't let one of them bring you down,

Scott, I found this PUNNY!! :respect: (and of course, excellent post so thank you for writing soooo much!! :thankyou: )
It's Winter time - you know you're a diver when you're scraping ice off your windshield INSIDE your vehicle...!

Once in a while, it is good to step back, take a breath, and remember to be humble. You'll never know it all - ScubaDadMiami. If you aren't afraid of dying, there is nothing you can't achieve - Lao-tzu. One dog barks at something, the rest bark at him - Chinese Proverb.

#41 PerroneFord

PerroneFord

    I spend too much time on line

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,303 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:57 AM

I took cavern and did not do the dives as I was not happy with my buoyancy. My poor instructor just did not know what to do with me when I said "I'm not happy." "Not happy at all!" A personal goal of mine to finish cavern. I learned more from that course than almost anything else dive related. It brought home exactly how finite some things can be. How a body responds to stress, and how differences can be dramatic and/or traumatic and working to control of your body in a given situation. I so very much value the skills that I did take away with me from that class even though I did not yet complete the dives.


You ever think of taking a Fundies (GUE Fundamentals) course or similar? I think you'd really enjoy it.

#42 VADiver

VADiver

    Everyone knows me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 829 posts
  • Location:back in VA,,,for now
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:GUE T2/C1
  • Logged Dives:400+

Posted 25 September 2008 - 02:15 PM

I went beyond AOW for the education and to be a better diver. Part of being a better diver is making difficult decisions that may not always be popular or may be subject to peer pressure. I am not too proud to call a dive. I've done it on more than one occasion and never made any bones about it. I called out on my second dive this past weekend as I had gotten more than a slight headache at depth. Took a nap and worked on my tan.


That's one of the rules my buddies and I have...anyone can call the dive for any reason at all. It's the safest way to approach the dive and make sure everyone's head is in the game.

Edited by VADiver, 25 September 2008 - 02:15 PM.


#43

  • Guests

Posted 25 September 2008 - 04:14 PM

1) there are some REALLY REALLY REALLY bad shops/instructors out there and you shouldn't let one of them bring you down,

Scott, I found this PUNNY!! :lmao: (and of course, excellent post so thank you for writing soooo much!! :cheerleader: )

thanks, I aim to please!!!

#44 pmarie

pmarie

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 496 posts
  • Location:Central East Fl
  • Gender:Female
  • Cert Level:Playing at Divemaster
  • Logged Dives:500+

Posted 25 September 2008 - 07:33 PM

PerroneFord
You ever think of taking a Fundies (GUE Fundamentals) course or similar? I think you'd really enjoy it.


I hadn't really thought of it. I guess a part of that is that I really do not have too much (let's call it real limited) knowledge as to what it is.....


VADiver
That's one of the rules my buddies and I have...anyone can call the dive for any reason at all. It's the safest way to approach the dive and make sure everyone's head is in the game.


Yep, Any diver can call any dive at any time for any reason and no harm, no foul.


And occasionally someone does need to "smack" me upside the head and tell me to "pay attention!" I hope I never stop learning.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users