8 replies to this topic

[Racer184]

I am presently in dive master course.............

Underwater exchange of equipment was a VERY educational experience. I had a few minutes to discuss the procedure with my partner (about my size) and we thought we had it down..... but actually swapping all equipment underwater while buddy breathing was a VERY enlightening experience. I can not imagine open water students doing this, but I highly recommend this experience to everyone. It sounds so easy to swap BCD, fins, mask, etc... but actually doing it was an experience I highly recommend.

Second....

Playing victim in rescue classes.... I have done this three times and will do it again tomorrow. This is another VERY enlightning experience.... to play 'unresponsive victim' with different students and different instructors is a very good thing to me. Yes, it was good to take the rescue diver course and play "rescuer"..... that is definitely invaluable....
but playing victim has been giving me insight I could not get from the books or from being 'the rescuer'. All the time I am trying to relax and be a limp pile of blubber gives me the time to really pay attention to the 'rescuer's actions and how effective they are and how much effort is being expended. I notice as they fumble with my low-pressure inflator (and usually activate the pnuematic squawker instead of filling my bcd). In fresh water (the pool) I sink... so it is really good experience when the student climbs out of the pool and momentarily lets go of me to let myself sink to the bottom of the pool .... it takes some anticipation and the ability to hold my breath.... but it also makes me aware that when trying to rescue a swimmer/diver that you have to pay attention every milllisecond. Someday I want to see the students face when they hear the instructor ask "where's your victim?" and the student sees I am on the bottom of the pool.

Let your local instructor / dive shop know you are willing to play victim. I think you will find the experience to be rewarding.

Another very rewarding experience is playing "panicked diver at the surface". When another student handles this well, it REALLY drives home how effective it can be to have water splashed in my face... I know I am fine, yet I still am repulsed when I try to go after the rescuer. And if I do get the chance to try to climb right on top of the rescuer, and they respond by quickly descending... this also drills into my brain the effectiveness of that rescuer response.

Anyway, these are not things I would consider "missing" from "open water"... .... are advanced students ready to play victim? Are advanced students ready to do a complete equipment swap ? Perhaps students in 'rescue diver' courses should have to play victim ?

What do you think ?

Edited by Dive_Girl, 25 September 2008 - 10:22 AM.
[Topic split from What was missing in your dive training, as this is an EXCELLENT topic and suggestion!! Thank you!]

[pmarie]

As my rescue class was very small I played victim as well as the rescuer. To lighten this up a bit we did have a lot of joking; my instructor told the "victim" that if she did not let me "get her" he would buy her a beer. I told her "forget him, I'll buy you a case of beer!" It was a challenge and took a while but I got her. Without having to pony up for the beer. I was wiped after the water work as I wanted the most realistic setting for the class. Poor me, I begged for the Keys. What was I thinking????? 1-2' swells and current

Alan, did you and your buddy start out in your own gear? Or did you start out in each other's gear for the swap?

[georoc01]

Yeah, I had my buddy drown me twice during my rescue class. Once when I was playing an unconcious victim and he removed my bc after his own and surprise, I sunk and he wasn't ready to handle it.

The second time was in open water when he handed me his weight integrated BC with no air in it. I didn't have my reg in my mouth and the additional 20lbs pretty much took me to the bottom.

[Dive_Girl]

This is a GREAT topic and suggestion!! When I was in my DM program, I assisted with every Rescue course my dive shop was offering. I learned tons more every session! I may have learned more as a "victim" because I could feel the movements of the other diver and I could feel whether there was a mouth mask seal and if my airway was open, etc. Very very eye-opening.

I encourage all DM candidates and dive pros to assist with any Rescue class and we have welcomed fun divers in to participate in some of the confined water scenarios. We also recently invited our PADI Regional Rep to host a Rescue Workshop. We had over 20 dive pros and candidates attend. Keeping up on Rescue skills may help in quelling some of the nerves and hesitation that surround incidents.

[Cold_H2O]

I have been a "victim" more than once. Like DG I learned a ton while being "rescued".

[NJBerserker]

My rescue class was also very small and we had to alternate between "rescuers" and "victims". A memory that sticks out was that out of the whole class everyone but two of us were small and/or skinny. I am a chunky dude and the other big guy was a 6'3" 250 bodybuilder. It was a lot of fun getting him out of the quarry on the backboard with the minimal assistance I got from the others. It makes me want to lose weight so my fat a$$ doesn't drown one day because no one can get me back on the boat.

[Dive_Girl]

My rescue class was also very small and we had to alternate between "rescuers" and "victims". A memory that sticks out was that out of the whole class everyone but two of us were small and/or skinny. I am a chunky dude and the other big guy was a 6'3" 250 bodybuilder. It was a lot of fun getting him out of the quarry on the backboard with the minimal assistance I got from the others. It makes me want to lose weight so my fat a$$ doesn't drown one day because no one can get me back on the boat.

NJBerserker, you are cracking me up!! I will tell you this, in a real situation so much adrenaline is pumping, it may be your "rescuer" hauls onto the deck with one arm! I had a dive buddy who was a solid 6'4" and we would dive off his personal boat, a 19' Arima. I told him once "You know if something happens to you, I don't know that I will be able to get you back on this boat." That made us rise to the challenge to find a viable solution. Thinking about and talking about scenarios are the best way so pre-solve problems.

[Kuraman]

I am presently in dive master course.............

Underwater exchange of equipment was a VERY educational experience. I had a few minutes to discuss the procedure with my partner (about my size) and we thought we had it down..... but actually swapping all equipment underwater while buddy breathing was a VERY enlightening experience. I can not imagine open water students doing this, but I highly recommend this experience to everyone. It sounds so easy to swap BCD, fins, mask, etc... but actually doing it was an experience I highly recommend.

Second....

Playing victim in rescue classes.... I have done this three times and will do it again tomorrow. This is another VERY enlightning experience.... to play 'unresponsive victim' with different students and different instructors is a very good thing to me. Yes, it was good to take the rescue diver course and play "rescuer"..... that is definitely invaluable....
but playing victim has been giving me insight I could not get from the books or from being 'the rescuer'. All the time I am trying to relax and be a limp pile of blubber gives me the time to really pay attention to the 'rescuer's actions and how effective they are and how much effort is being expended. I notice as they fumble with my low-pressure inflator (and usually activate the pnuematic squawker instead of filling my bcd). In fresh water (the pool) I sink... so it is really good experience when the student climbs out of the pool and momentarily lets go of me to let myself sink to the bottom of the pool .... it takes some anticipation and the ability to hold my breath.... but it also makes me aware that when trying to rescue a swimmer/diver that you have to pay attention every milllisecond. Someday I want to see the students face when they hear the instructor ask "where's your victim?" and the student sees I am on the bottom of the pool.

Let your local instructor / dive shop know you are willing to play victim. I think you will find the experience to be rewarding.

Another very rewarding experience is playing "panicked diver at the surface". When another student handles this well, it REALLY drives home how effective it can be to have water splashed in my face... I know I am fine, yet I still am repulsed when I try to go after the rescuer. And if I do get the chance to try to climb right on top of the rescuer, and they respond by quickly descending... this also drills into my brain the effectiveness of that rescuer response.

Anyway, these are not things I would consider "missing" from "open water"... .... are advanced students ready to play victim? Are advanced students ready to do a complete equipment swap ? Perhaps students in 'rescue diver' courses should have to play victim ?

What do you think ?

Equipment swap is really an exercise in handling stress. I would not recommend that the typical OW or AOW diver do this unless they have many many dives.
Being the 'victim' in a rescue clas is a very good idea, but if you really want to get some exposure is play victim in a IDC. I ended up being the victim for a entire group at my IE, (I float good). One guy removed my BCD (integrated wieghts) before adding any air, took him 30 min to find it in 80' of water. A girl got so tired of towing me back to the buoy, I had to really rescue her. But I actually got to observe how each one of them did it and learned something from all of them.

[peterbj7]

When I was a newly certified DM (but with ca. 900 dives) I visited Key Largo and did some dives with a dive center there (that has subsequently disappeared). After a while I was asked if I could set up a panicked diver scenario for a putative instructor employed there - she hadn't met me so had no idea I was an experienced diver. So I did - I went on an "easy" dive where she would be actively leading, and sent all sorts of signals that I wasn't comfortable, starting with trying to assemble my scuba onto a tank facing the wrong way, fluffing my entry into the water, and then (because she didn't seem to be getting the message) hyperventilating while we were swimming along at maybe 50ft. Then I topped it off by bolting for the surface - I wanted to simulate holding my breath but that's hard with open circuit! She managed OK, but was always well behind what I was doing and had it been for real I'm not sure I would have escaped unscathed. She followed me to the surface, calmed me down and towed m to the boat. She only began to suspect something was wrong when the boat crew didn't rush to her assistance in getting me out of the water. The whole exercise was actually a lot of fun - she was highly stressed during it and in my debrief to her I suggested she needed more practice with students, but later we had a laugh over a beer.

Then there was the occasion when I acted as victim for a DM candidate in a flooded quarry in England, some time in the winter. I agreed with the instructor where I would go to, well within the range the candidate should have searched whichever technique he chose, then settled down for a wait. It wasn't very warm just kneeling there without moving. After at least 40 minutes the instructor appeared and told me to surface - the candidate had performed two search patterns, but his execution was sloppy and flawed and he failed to find me. This was near the end of his DM course, and I'm glad to say the instructor declined to certify him.