28 replies to this topic

[netmage]

Pmarie

I think what your boss is referring to is a SAMBA or shallow water blackout from freediving is what he is referring to as a hypoxic insult. In normal recreational open circuit diving your not going to run into a problem with hypoxia.

Well, I dunno about you.., but every weekend on closed circuit rebreathers, I run into normoxic insult... My buddies are pretty brutal... <g>

[peterbj7]

My "me too" reply.

With normal open circuit recreational scuba I see no scope at all for hypoxia, unless something has gone very seriously wrong in the tank filling department. Even then it is exceedingly unlikely - I've never heard of it.

OC scuba on nitrox is even less likely to result in hypoxia, and so long as basic rules are followed not hyperoxia either. There is a far greater risk, though still minute, of CNS oxygen poisoning, but that does not have catastrophic onset.

Shallow water blackout whilst freediving is the only way I see hypoxia being remotely possible, but that isn't scuba and presumably your boss had scuba in mind? I think he's simply wrong. If his concern was bone necrosis then that would be a far more interesting topic for discussion.

[secretsea18]

QUOTE (Scubatooth @ Oct 15 2008, 07:49 PM) *
Pmarie

I think what your boss is referring to is a SAMBA or shallow water blackout from freediving is what he is referring to as a hypoxic insult. In normal recreational open circuit diving your not going to run into a problem with hypoxia.

My "me too" reply.

With normal open circuit recreational scuba I see no scope at all for hypoxia, unless something has gone very seriously wrong in the tank filling department. Even then it is exceedingly unlikely - I've never heard of it.

OC scuba on nitrox is even less likely to result in hypoxia, and so long as basic rules are followed not hyperoxia either. There is a far greater risk, though still minute, of CNS oxygen poisoning, but that does not have catastrophic onset.

Shallow water blackout whilst freediving is the only way I see hypoxia being remotely possible, but that isn't scuba and presumably your boss had scuba in mind? I think he's simply wrong. If his concern was bone necrosis then that would be a far more interesting topic for discussion.

To both you and Scubatooth,


I already suggested that the possibility of SWB from freediving, and the OP stated that he was familiar with freediving and that SWB, specifically, was not what he was concerned about...

Although I would be much more worried about SWB than hypo or hyperoxia on open circuit scuba.

Perhaps his medical specialty will shed some light on this issue. I certainly know that I had to learn about partial pressures and effects of gases in medical school AND have to think of those things on a regular basis in my practice.
Robin

Edited by secretsea18, 16 October 2008 - 05:55 AM.

[pmarie]

This is going to hurt. I am blushing I tell you. I have sort of been a victim of my Dr.s sense of humor. However, I do not regret bringing the subject up because I learned a lot. To answer some of the questions, the man has a Ph.D in chemistry and has multiple board certifications; IM, Cardiology, Nulcear Medicine and another pending. So, to the blushing part.

In his mind I must have suffered "hypoxia" somewhere along the line and my "neurons are fried" and diving has "done something to my brain." All of this because I failed to notice an item that I was horribly possesive about was missing. He hid this item about two weeks ago. In fact, I probably would not have noticed it yesterday if I hadn't gotten a little excited that the office would receive another such little gem of a gift with a delivery. That was went the light went on, I uttered a few choice words, confirmed my suspicions, and commenced a search for my missing item.

All of this embarrasment, laughter and education has been over a missing stuffed turtle. I hope you guys are laughing with me and not just at me!!

[pmarie]

Well, I dunno about you.., but every weekend on closed circuit rebreathers, I run into normoxic insult... My buddies are pretty brutal... <g>

Tim, Now I really need ice cream!!

[dive_sail_etc]

...All of this embarrasment, laughter and education has been over a missing stuffed turtle. I hope you guys are laughing with me and not just at me!!

Sweet Marie, I know I speak for many of us who have been on the receiving end of such practical jokes that we empathize with the embarrassment you feel. You should inform your radioactive sawbones what an amazing response his innocent tease produced from the vaunted SD brain trust. (*ahem!* Take a bow, learned ladies and gentlemen...)

Now, about that ice cream...

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Yeah, what Brad says! I'm not embarassed to say that I've been googling lots of terms while following this thread, and I have become very knowledgeable on the hypoxia subject! You'll have to brag on this group to your co-workers -- many were looking out for you!

My co-workers know absolutely nothing about diving, so they get my goat in other ways. At least yours was funny!

And what's this about ice cream??

[secretsea18]

I want Ice Cream too!

[pmarie]

Comfort food, well, really my favorite food. Love Ice Cream. Tim, where ara ya at? We all need ice cream.

I am consoling myself by diving, I know ya'll feel real sorry for me.......

[netmage]

<br />Comfort food, well, really my favorite food. Love Ice Cream. Tim, where ara ya at? We all need ice cream.<br /><br />I am consoling myself by diving, I know ya'll feel real sorry for me.......<br />

we all scream for ice cream...

[ScubaDadMiami]

<br />Comfort food, well, really my favorite food. Love Ice Cream. Tim, where ara ya at? We all need ice cream.<br /><br />I am consoling myself by diving, I know ya'll feel real sorry for me.......<br />

we all scream for ice cream...

Well, not exactly all of us.

[dive_sail_etc]

Comfort food, well, really my favorite food. Love Ice Cream. Tim, where ara ya at? We all need ice cream.

I am consoling myself by diving, I know ya'll feel real sorry for me.......

Tim, just drop all the ice cream off here at my super-secret freezer facility. I'll keep it safe until we all get together for the next frozen treat party. No, really. It'll be fine. Trust me.

Marie, your sad situation has me drowning in genuine alligator tears. Pass the octo, wouldya? Stay safe!

[pmarie]

Hey All, a small update regarding the good Dr. telling me I have fried neurons et al. I told him that the fabulous people on the Board have provided info and data and I forwarded a lot to him; along with the comments and he enjoyed the banter and support from the others here. Now I'm back to just an "addict."

I did pay him back by really cleaning up my office and delegating tasks to other employees and breezing out of the office with "everyone have a good weekend, and be nice to him on Friday. He'll need your support." On Friday he called me to ask where I was at I said I'm at the airport." "Where are you going? Are you coming back?" Yep, I had fun. Yep, I'm back in the office. Yep, I had Ice Cream

[Wakemaker]

Are you sure you mean hypoxia? Hypoxia is not normally a concern...

There may be other justification for our hypoxia concerns, especially when without a breathable atmosphere, while using a regulator and pressurized air (or SNUBA). That's a strange notion, "without a breathable atmosphere." Maybe as in a smoke filled room during a house fire; if the rescuers are wearing breathing apparatus and enter a dangerous atmosphere, they won't be able to remove the gear if the air supply is bad.

* excess exertion (body begins to demand more than capacities)

* cigarette addicts (carboxyhemoglobin note: "Physiologists have found that smoking raises normal carbon monoxide levels in the blood three to 12 times. This can impair tissue oxygen transport and carbon dioxide elimination, particularly in people with coronary artery disease. Circulation increases so uncontaminated red blood cells can meet tissue gas-exchange requirements, raising blood pressure and heart rate. This is one reason why smoking stimulates the heart." ~ The Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving, 2008© PADI Inc., Chapter 5, The Diver Within, "the Physiology of Diving," pg. 5-17)

* moisture in the air tank

* illness (and/or prescription drug use)

* shallow breathing during the dive

* fear

* tank gasses not analyzed immediately before the dive

* amateur refills (Not filled per safety standards; such as OSHA or CGA)

* age of air in the cylinder (also non-diving cylinders or using condemned SCUBA tanks)


I've seen many compressor air intakes located with engine exhaust up-wind. What about technicians that eat a lot of beans before filling your air tank?

It may be impossible to determine if a person's death was caused by hypoxia (asphyxiation?) because issues may be cited as the cause of death that were identified by hypoxia being one of the symptoms. But I mention that to suggest the opposite; hypoxia may be temporary or not cause an incident that gets DAN's attention, and thus, becomes overlooked.

Wait. Um, that's not expressed clearly. I have an example of what I'm try to say:

1. I witnessed, what appeared to be a 12 year old girl (reported to be a "14-year-old"), arrive to the ER unconscious due to prolonged hypoxia caused by shallow breathing (dyspnea?) and inadequate heart rate which was the result of her having a reaction to what the estacy was cut with; she died a few days leter. http://www.justthinktwice.com/itcant/irma.cfm

2. Victims of confined space entry (without a marine chemist and/or a breathing apparatus) may die due to lack of immediate first aid to correct a slow heart rate and inadequate breathing caused by hypoxia from breathing air in the oxygen deficient confined space.

Is that expressed better? In both cases the victim looks as if merely sleeping soundly. In both cases prompt oxygen first aid, may have resulted in a rapid full recovery for either or both victims.

Would you be surprised to know at what O2 percentage we loose consciousness?

Would you be surprised to know how long an unconscious victim of hypoxia can go without first aid before permanent brain damage results?

Are you absolutely sure you have NEVER EVER been able to taste or smell the compressed air you were breathing on SCUBA/SNUBA, hard-hat, or SCBA systems?

Edited by Wakemaker, 11 September 2009 - 11:51 AM.