31 replies to this topic

[texasdiverdude]

Hi All,

I have a DUI CF200 drysuit with the Zipseals and I wanted to add dry gloves, but there seems to be nothing that allows a direct attachment to the Zipseals other than to buy DUI gloves for a ridiculous price. I've read some of the posts on dry glove attachment systems and done some research too and they all seem to be a "next best" solution when combined with Zipseals. Several people mention using cheap gloves from a hardware store instead of the more expensive purpose built gloves so the main question is, why do I need another attachment system for the gloves? What is the issue with gluing a pair of cheap gloves directly to the Zipseal ring over the existing wrist seal? Is it a dexterity problem since it's not removable for donning/doffing? With a tube running under the wrist seal I can't see a pressure equalization problem and I also wouldn't require a wrist dam in case of a minor glove leak.

It seems to me I could use a thin pair of rubber gloves with a glove liner that I use for skiing and I could put a pair of cloth work gloves that I use for warm water wreck diving over them or even a thin pair of neoprene "wet" gloves to protect the rubber glove.

Any comments suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Bubble2Bubble]

My dry suit came with the dry glove attachment, its basicly a hard plastic ring that you can remove and repair the standard wrist seals or you can attach the dry gloves too, my problem with the dry gloves is they are made of thin latex material and would punture very easy, making them useless for any real wreck diving or any diving that would require you to use your hands for work. my dry gloves are still in the box they came in and I use the standard wrist seals and 5mil wet suit gloves in cold water or just plain-o hardware store gloves if i am working around UW cables etc.. I think dry gloves are made for those easy dives that you just go see the fishies and marine life..with a no touch attitude..and for that purpose they would be Great IMHO.

Bubski

[gcbryan]

Hi All,

I have a DUI CF200 drysuit with the Zipseals and I wanted to add dry gloves, but there seems to be nothing that allows a direct attachment to the Zipseals other than to buy DUI gloves for a ridiculous price. I've read some of the posts on dry glove attachment systems and done some research too and they all seem to be a "next best" solution when combined with Zipseals. Several people mention using cheap gloves from a hardware store instead of the more expensive purpose built gloves so the main question is, why do I need another attachment system for the gloves? What is the issue with gluing a pair of cheap gloves directly to the Zipseal ring over the existing wrist seal? Is it a dexterity problem since it's not removable for donning/doffing? With a tube running under the wrist seal I can't see a pressure equalization problem and I also wouldn't require a wrist dam in case of a minor glove leak.

It seems to me I could use a thin pair of rubber gloves with a glove liner that I use for skiing and I could put a pair of cloth work gloves that I use for warm water wreck diving over them or even a thin pair of neoprene "wet" gloves to protect the rubber glove.

Any comments suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sure you could do it as long as you are talking about gluing it to the outer zip ring with the latex seal rather than the zip ring that is attached to your suit.

It will be easier to attach a non-lined gloved I would imagine. You can then just wear liners yourself. I have a friend who dives in lakes for bottles and is always putting his hands in the silt grabbing things who puts garden gloves on top of regular dry gloves to protect them. Me, I don't touch things (usually) so it's not a problem.

I should add that if you ever need to send your suit in for repair anyway you might consider having the zip seals taken off (leave them on the neck seal) and replace it at the factory (DUI) with the Viking classic system. It's a ring that is glued onto the outside of your suit with an inner ring that holds the latex seals so you can still replace them yourself. They are standard seals so they are $30/pair instead of the overpriced zipseals. You can use any non-lined latex glove ($15) and they attach simply by pulling them over the large outer ring. Simple and foolproof.

Edited by gcbryan, 17 September 2009 - 12:09 PM.

[texasdiverdude]

Thanks for the opinions. I tried some thin latex gloves (used for household cleaning) from the hardware store and just taped them in place since they stretch over the existing Zipseal tightly and just need to be held there. I can even put them on after I've suited up although the taping is more difficult. I can still adjust my neck seal and have plenty of dexterity. I didn't even bother with an equalization tube, but I might try that next.

[gcbryan]

Thanks for the opinions. I tried some thin latex gloves (used for household cleaning) from the hardware store and just taped them in place since they stretch over the existing Zipseal tightly and just need to be held there. I can even put them on after I've suited up although the taping is more difficult. I can still adjust my neck seal and have plenty of dexterity. I didn't even bother with an equalization tube, but I might try that next.

I don't need equalization tubes either. You can get latex gloves that are a little more stretchy than the gloves that you are talking about and you will not need the tape. In my area, there is a commercial diver supply store and they cost $15. That's probably more than you paid but much less than regular drysuit gloves.

Look around and see if you can't find a non-lined latex glove that will work without the tape. It takes a little practice to put them on at first but after you get the technique down it's no problem.

[peterbj7]

I'd be absolutely certain you want/need dry gloves. I've done countless dives in very cold water and I've never felt the need for them. In fact, I prefer thin (2mm) wet gloves in all cold conditions.

[gcbryan]

I'd be absolutely certain you want/need dry gloves. I've done countless dives in very cold water and I've never felt the need for them. In fact, I prefer thin (2mm) wet gloves in all cold conditions.

Obviously he wants them. Should he not want them because you don't care for them?

[texasdiverdude]

I'd be absolutely certain you want/need dry gloves. I've done countless dives in very cold water and I've never felt the need for them. In fact, I prefer thin (2mm) wet gloves in all cold conditions.

I have a pair of 6.5 mm Henderson gloves, but they are difficult to get on, have poor dexterity, and my hands are numb after about 45 min in 52 degree water. The only cold water diving I've done so far is Texas lakes in the winter, but I want to dive the pacific northwest up to Alaska. Since no dive shops here have anything I can even lay my hands on I'm just experimenting. I may yet buy the Zipseal dry gloves or something else, but after reading posts online I'm not sold on anything and don't need another piece of expensive dive gear that just occupies space in the closet.

[Bubble2Bubble]

gcbryan,
I wanted dry gloves and got them for a added cost $$ just to find out in my dry suit training that they (dry gloves) can come off very easy if the air in your dry suit shifts, lets say you raise your left arm towards the surface and all the air comes out of your wrist seal and into your dry glove, the dry glove can become fully inflated and pop off and head towards the surface leaving you not so dry anymore on your hand. I think I will use my dry gloves someday...when I get better at diving in my dry suit.

There are three universal issues all experienced divers seem to agree on with reguards to gear configuration.
1. Is it streamlined.
2. Is it Simple
3. Does the diver understand how there gear works.

Bubski

[texasdiverdude]

gcbryan,
I wanted dry gloves and got them for a added cost $$ just to find out in my dry suit training that they (dry gloves) can come off very easy if the air in your dry suit shifts, lets say you raise your left arm towards the surface and all the air comes out of your wrist seal and into your dry glove, the dry glove can become fully inflated and pop off and head towards the surface leaving you not so dry anymore on your hand. I think I will use my dry gloves someday...when I get better at diving in my dry suit.

There are three universal issues all experienced divers seem to agree on with reguards to gear configuration.
1. Is it streamlined.
2. Is it Simple
3. Does the diver understand how there gear works.

Bubski

All good points and all underlying my approach to this issue. Right now there is no cold water in Texas for me to test insulation needs which will affect dexterity and glove sizing. I can try a range of things now which will give me information as I push forward, but until I've covered all the angles slapping a credit card on the counter will just be a bet.

[gcbryan]

gcbryan,
I wanted dry gloves and got them for a added cost $$ just to find out in my dry suit training that they (dry gloves) can come off very easy if the air in your dry suit shifts, lets say you raise your left arm towards the surface and all the air comes out of your wrist seal and into your dry glove, the dry glove can become fully inflated and pop off and head towards the surface leaving you not so dry anymore on your hand. I think I will use my dry gloves someday...when I get better at diving in my dry suit.

There are three universal issues all experienced divers seem to agree on with reguards to gear configuration.
1. Is it streamlined.
2. Is it Simple
3. Does the diver understand how there gear works.

Bubski

There is no reason for a dryglove to come off in the manner that you describe. I have hundred's of dives with drygloves and most people I dive with have them as well. I've never heard of gloves coming off being a major problem as long as the diver met your condition #3 above.

If your gloves do not equalize naturally (depends on your wrist tendons) then you use equalizing tubes. If they don't equalize naturally and you still don't use tubes then for the most part no air is going to get in there anyway.

If it did get in there and you started to ascend and if the glove did actually expand then you wouldn't keep your glove above your head as it continued to expand obviously.

In reality this generally doesn't happen. The air finds a way out (wrist seal) before the pressure builds up to the point where a glove would pop off.

The only case of a glove popping off that I've ever experienced or heard about is with some ring systems if you lube the o-rings too much they may pop off when you stretch your arm out if the suit is too short. The solution here is to not lube the o-ring or to get a better dryglove system.

Again, I've never heard of what you describe actually happening.

Of all the potential problems that you can have with drysuits, drygloves coming off should be the least of one's problems.

Tearing a glove will flood the glove but if you wear fleece liners your hands will be no colder and no more wet than if you were wearing wetgloves.

Edited by gcbryan, 20 September 2009 - 12:48 AM.

[peterbj7]

I'd be absolutely certain you want/need dry gloves. I've done countless dives in very cold water and I've never felt the need for them. In fact, I prefer thin (2mm) wet gloves in all cold conditions.

Obviously he wants them. Should he not want them because you don't care for them?

Why "obviously he wants them"? If he's never used them how can he be sure that they are right for him, other than by listening to others who have had the experience? I have done many cold water dives in and around Britain and elsewhere, and have belonged to several clubs with enthusiastic frequent divers. Although I know lots of people who have tried dry gloves, myself included, I know very few people who continue to use them. Most find them cumbersome, awkward and fragile, and too prone to leaks. If the wrist seal of a dry glove leaks then of course your arm also gets wet.

I have tried thick wet gloves, several different brands and several different thicknesses, but I always come back to my 2mm gloves as the best compromise between comfort and dexterity. I used them most recently a couple of weeks ago in water at 53F, and although my hands slowly got cold, as always happens, they were never too cold for functionality and they warmed up quickly for the next dive. That has also been my experience using those same gloves on ice dives in northern Alaska.

I have never heard of a dry glove coming off completely in a dive, possibly partly because I know so few people who use them, but I have several times heard of them inflating and coming off the hand, just as can happen with drysuit boots on the feet. When that happens they can be very difficult to get back on, and well nigh impossible without help.

[peterbj7]

I'd be absolutely certain you want/need dry gloves. I've done countless dives in very cold water and I've never felt the need for them. In fact, I prefer thin (2mm) wet gloves in all cold conditions.

I have a pair of 6.5 mm Henderson gloves, but they are difficult to get on, have poor dexterity, and my hands are numb after about 45 min in 52 degree water. The only cold water diving I've done so far is Texas lakes in the winter, but I want to dive the pacific northwest up to Alaska. Since no dive shops here have anything I can even lay my hands on I'm just experimenting. I may yet buy the Zipseal dry gloves or something else, but after reading posts online I'm not sold on anything and don't need another piece of expensive dive gear that just occupies space in the closet.

You might try thin wet gloves, such as my 2mm, worn with a latex under-glove. Preferably not the short-wristed ones generally used for medical purposes, but something more like standard washing dishes gloves but thinner and closer fitting. I used that combination on a working dive in water at 30F once and it worked well. Like you, I can't get on with thick neoprene gloves and they actually make my hands colder, probably because the material is stiff and allows water to swill in and out underneath.

The problem with going the dryglove route is that changes are needed to your drysuit and you're stuck with them even if you decide you don't like the drygloves after all.

[gcbryan]

Hey Peter, not trying to give you a hard time by the way! I guess I should have said it's obvious that he wants to try drygloves (since he is already doing just that).

I would agree with some of your comments regarding drygloves but not with others. With many dryglove systems you don't make permanent changes to your suit. You attach rings and use the gloves. If you don't like them you take the rings off and your suit is unchanged. Most systems are like that.

If someone is going to be in a wreck or working underwater they will not want to have latex gloves (too soft) and they may not want drygloves at all.

I use the Viking Classic system and it is a permanent installation and it is the only system that I would use. I've tried some of the other systems and have observed buddies using the rest of the systems. Some work better than others but the Viking Classic is the only one I would use or I would just use wetgloves as well.

I had an OS Systems dryglove ring system and I soon found that I preferred to just use wetgloves. It wasn't a good system in my opinion.

For many people an equalization tube is not necessary. Therefore if a glove is punctured you are no more wet than if you were using wetgloves. Up here drysuits are more or less mandatory and most/many also use drygloves. They do work but you do have to learn how to use them and some are much better than others.

The trouble with most drygloves is that they equalize too well, meaning that you stay dry but not warm. Warmth is basically determined by your fleece liner or whatever you choose to use. Most systems aren't that hard to get back on if they did come off underwater. Mine would be almost impossible but it would be almost impossible for mine to come off.

Without an equalization tube a wrist seal is no more likely to leak than without a dryglove.

If I lived in Texas and only took the occasional trip to colder waters I probably wouldn't have drygloves especially if the cold water diving was for wreck penetration. I would just get thicker wetgloves and of the type that come up higher on the arm.

On the other hand if it's cold enough to require a drysuit in the first place it's worth thinking/learning about drygloves.

Edited by gcbryan, 20 September 2009 - 05:38 PM.

[Bubble2Bubble]

gcbryan,
I appreciate the added info you are providing for this thread TY. I pulled out my dryglove box today just to take a closer look at them and also to get more familiar with them. The manual does suggest a tubing for equalization for depths deeper than 15 to 20 meters. My dry suit came with the SI Tech Glove Lock QCP with the cuffs installed at the factory, in away this is nice because you can change out your wrist seals very easily or add the drygloves in a snap. Another feature I liked was the twist ring that allows for easy removal of the drygloves, the whole kit seems very robust except for the latex gloves. This kit can also be added and removed from a regular dry suit without permanent installtion. when it came to buying a drysuit i didnt want to regret something later, so I even got the pee valve (which I have never used) (yet) As for the dryglove popping off during diving, that was reported to me by my instructor saying it had happened to him using the same set-up so I dont have any details on why it came off. I'm not anti-drygloves or anti-pee valve, I can see someday when I expand into deeper deco diving that both those attachments might/will come in handy.. lets just say its another tool in your toolbox, but for diving in and around my area which is close to TX they will just stay on the shelf till needed. The bad part of having the cuffs permantly installed in my suit, is my wrist computor barely fits around the cuff area. It seems better just to keep talking about dry suits and drygloves in this thread than starting a whole new thread. So keep those questions , answers and thoughts coming in Divers.

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Bubski