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What are the benefits of diving nitrox?


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#16 georoc01

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:59 PM

"Lowers Nitrogen absorption and (therefore) reduces the chance of DCS" - I do not agree with either one of those statements. If that is what Nitrox instructors are teaching these days, then it is clear to me that they do not really understand Nitrox.

It is true that diving to equivalent depths and times on Nitrox will result in less Nitrogen absorption than the same depths and times on Air. If that is what people were doing, then I would grant that the above statements might be true. In my experience however, that is not how most people are using Nitrox. The most common use of Nitrox (and the purpose for which it was developed) is to extend bottom time at a given depth, or to go to a deeper depth for the same amount of time. If a person dives to the limit on Nitrox, then they will absorb just as much Nitrogen as if they dived to the equivalent limit on Air. So from a practical standpoint, I don't see "lowers Nitrogen absorption" as a tangible benefit, given how Nitrox is typically being used.

With respect to DCS, the operational aspects of the dive have much more to do with increased risk than the breathing gas does. Divers who ascend too quickly or hold their breath while on Nitrox, will be injured just as surely as if they had done the same thing on Air. There may be some marginal reduction in the chances of DCS, due to "slower effective ascent rate", or to breathing higher PPO2 at the safety stop, but I am not aware of any studies that support this notion. So again, I see no tangible benefit to using Nitrox for the sole purpose of "reducing DCS risk".

Nitrox is not some panacea that will automatically reduce risk of a diving injury. As divers, we all have the responsibility to follow safe diving practices, and the standard safety recommendations always apply, independent of the breathing gas - do not push the limits of your table or computer, always ascend slowly, and do safety stops on every dive. These things will reduce the overall risk much more so than the choice of breathing gas.

To answer the question that Kamala posed, I see the primary benefit of Nitrox as extending bottom time, for divers who have good enough air consumption to take advantage of it. And I guess I see some benefit to diving Nitrox on Air profiles where certain risk factors may be present (cold , etc). There is also some anecdotal evidence to suggest that divers "feel better" after Nitrox dives than after Air dives, probably due to reduced partial pressures of Nitrogen during the dives (my own experience diving with Nitrox bears this out).

But I don't really see "lowers Nitrogen absorption and (therefore) reduces the chance of DCS" as being applicable to most Nitrox dives, insofar as how most divers are conducting them.

(Sorry if I came on too strong with this post - this is a hot button topic for me, and I guess I get kind of crabby when I see people referencing these particular "sound bytes". :P)

-JimG


Well, I guess it depends on your air consumption relative to your Nitrogen limits. As someone who is more of a heavy breather, I seldome hit my NDL. So I do believe in my case, it does reduce my absorption. Where I do get the benefit above is in multi-day diving, where I don't have the long term buildup of Nitrogen in my system the further reduces my bottom time.

#17 gobie

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 08:06 PM

You need a nitrox computer, should be able to find for $250---> $1500.00, Put a bid in for 1 of the Cochran's that WW usually have on the trips. Try it out and buy later...

Can you explain "bid for it"? I'm new to this site and procedures.
thanks

#18 scubaski

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 08:56 PM

You need a nitrox computer, should be able to find for $250---> $1500.00, Put a bid in for 1 of the Cochran's that WW usually have on the trips. Try it out and buy later...

Can you explain "bid for it"? I'm new to this site and procedures.
thanks


Sure, I think your on the CZM trip. Open that thread and post that you would like to borrow one of WW computers on that trip. I'm not certain how many there are and all may be spoken for but some of your fellow trip goers may just want to try one out and will give up there trail run for a diver in need.
Also send a PM of Kamala for your request. Good Luck......And EAN and a computer are the way to go!!!!
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#19 ScubaPunk

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:49 AM

You need a nitrox computer, should be able to find for $250---> $1500.00, Put a bid in for 1 of the Cochran's that WW usually have on the trips. Try it out and buy later...

Can you explain "bid for it"? I'm new to this site and procedures.
thanks


Ask and you shall receive! I'll put you down for a Cochran for the Cozy trip Gobie. :P So are you going to get certified for Nitrox on the trip?

Edited by ScubaPunk, 24 September 2010 - 03:50 AM.


#20 gobie

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:18 AM

You need a nitrox computer, should be able to find for $250---> $1500.00, Put a bid in for 1 of the Cochran's that WW usually have on the trips. Try it out and buy later...

Can you explain "bid for it"? I'm new to this site and procedures.
thanks


Ask and you shall receive! I'll put you down for a Cochran for the Cozy trip Gobie. :D So are you going to get certified for Nitrox on the trip?

Kamala is going to get back to me on the cost. I hope i dont have to do too much classroom time while I am there? Do u have any idea how much instruction is involved? Do i do the class in between dives or at tthe end of the day?
Thank you for the dive computer :P

#21 ThatJoeGuy

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:26 AM

The nitrox class is mostly book learning. You can get the book ahead of time and fill out the questions. Then review your answers with your instructor and you are set to go. At least that was the case for PADI.

#22 shadragon

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:34 AM

According to this site PADI now offers the NITROX course via e-learning as well.
Remember, email is an inefficient communications forum. You may not read things the way it was intended. Give people the benefit of the doubt before firing back... Especially if it is ME...! ;)

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#23 secretsea18

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:49 AM

You need a nitrox computer, should be able to find for $250---> $1500.00, Put a bid in for 1 of the Cochran's that WW usually have on the trips. Try it out and buy later...

Can you explain "bid for it"? I'm new to this site and procedures.
thanks


Ask and you shall receive! I'll put you down for a Cochran for the Cozy trip Gobie. :teeth: So are you going to get certified for Nitrox on the trip?

Kamala is going to get back to me on the cost. I hope i dont have to do too much classroom time while I am there? Do u have any idea how much instruction is involved? Do i do the class in between dives or at tthe end of the day?
Thank you for the dive computer :tears:

You can do a Nitrox certification on line for something like $80. There is no classroom, and you just take a test after reviewing the materials.

There are many sites where you can access the online course. I'd recommend doing it well before your trip, so you have plenty of time to review and refresh. :)
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#24 Greg@ihpil

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:27 PM

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It's been said,"no question is a dumb question".I dug this subject up & read the reply's, After experiencing Nitrox on my last 2 trip's . I would attest favorably ,with great benifits & or results.I have this question relative to Nitrox. Can one dive doubles with Nitrox? Using the theory behind Nitrox,recieving more bottom time,at the proper MOD.My 1st GUESS is ,just because you have more (supply).Your pp still has to stay in check.Also,would that mean your % would be under say a 32% ?I know the answer will be determined by what depth "one" would be going to.Let's say for discussion purposes 75' for conservatism. Or ,is there a break even point ,would you be safer just using air?Just curious .

Jim , George & or Jerry , members of the dbles club. say a few words....
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#25 Guest_PlatypusMan_*

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:03 PM

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It's been said,"no question is a dumb question".I dug this subject up & read the reply's, After experiencing Nitrox on my last 2 trip's . I would attest favorably ,with great benifits & or results.I have this question relative to Nitrox. Can one dive doubles with Nitrox? Using the theory behind Nitrox,recieving more bottom time,at the proper MOD.My 1st GUESS is ,just because you have more (supply).Your pp still has to stay in check.Also,would that mean your % would be under say a 32% ?I know the answer will be determined by what depth "one" would be going to.Let's say for discussion purposes 75' for conservatism. Or ,is there a break even point ,would you be safer just using air?Just curious .

Jim , George & or Jerry , members of the dbles club. say a few words....


I'd take a stab at this, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. (I just recently broke down my doubles, so I qualify.)

Are you asking if while wearing doubles with Nitrox (EAN32?), there is a break point where the ppO2 rises to unsafe levels based on time spent at depth?

#26 Greg@ihpil

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

Member's
It's been said,"no question is a dumb question".I dug this subject up & read the reply's, After experiencing Nitrox on my last 2 trip's . I would attest favorably ,with great benifits & or results.I have this question relative to Nitrox. Can one dive doubles with Nitrox? Using the theory behind Nitrox,recieving more bottom time,at the proper MOD.My 1st GUESS is ,just because you have more (supply).Your pp still has to stay in check.Also,would that mean your % would be under say a 32% ?I know the answer will be determined by what depth "one" would be going to.Let's say for discussion purposes 75' for conservatism. Or ,is there a break even point ,would you be safer just using air?Just curious .

Jim , George & or Jerry , members of the dbles club. say a few words....


I'd take a stab at this, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. (I just recently broke down my doubles, so I qualify.)

Are you asking if while wearing doubles with Nitrox (EAN32?), there is a break point where the ppO2 rises to unsafe levels based on time spent at depth?


Yes John, I guess I took the long way of expressing it.Sorry...

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#27

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:30 PM

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It's been said,"no question is a dumb question".I dug this subject up & read the reply's, After experiencing Nitrox on my last 2 trip's . I would attest favorably ,with great benifits & or results.I have this question relative to Nitrox. Can one dive doubles with Nitrox? Using the theory behind Nitrox,recieving more bottom time,at the proper MOD.My 1st GUESS is ,just because you have more (supply).Your pp still has to stay in check.Also,would that mean your % would be under say a 32% ?I know the answer will be determined by what depth "one" would be going to.Let's say for discussion purposes 75' for conservatism. Or ,is there a break even point ,would you be safer just using air?Just curious .

Jim , George & or Jerry , members of the dbles club. say a few words....


I'd take a stab at this, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. (I just recently broke down my doubles, so I qualify.)

Are you asking if while wearing doubles with Nitrox (EAN32?), there is a break point where the ppO2 rises to unsafe levels based on time spent at depth?


Yes John, I guess I took the long way of expressing it.Sorry...


The answer is "yes you can" but unless you have horribly bad air management you will be in deco long before you get any benefit from it. That is really something that is covered in detail in Tech courses and really should not be attempted without those courses. I will leave it to the Tech divers to explain more since I am not a Tech diver and have no desire to be one anymore. OR you could pick up a DSAT Deep Diver crew pack and learn all you want to know at it. I've got one cheap. If you are interested, PM me.



#28 Guest_PlatypusMan_*

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 05:33 PM

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It's been said,"no question is a dumb question".I dug this subject up & read the reply's, After experiencing Nitrox on my last 2 trip's . I would attest favorably ,with great benifits & or results.I have this question relative to Nitrox. Can one dive doubles with Nitrox? Using the theory behind Nitrox,recieving more bottom time,at the proper MOD.My 1st GUESS is ,just because you have more (supply).Your pp still has to stay in check.Also,would that mean your % would be under say a 32% ?I know the answer will be determined by what depth "one" would be going to.Let's say for discussion purposes 75' for conservatism. Or ,is there a break even point ,would you be safer just using air?Just curious .

Jim , George & or Jerry , members of the dbles club. say a few words....


I'd take a stab at this, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. (I just recently broke down my doubles, so I qualify.)

Are you asking if while wearing doubles with Nitrox (EAN32?), there is a break point where the ppO2 rises to unsafe levels based on time spent at depth?


Yes John, I guess I took the long way of expressing it.Sorry...


Don't be sorry; on rare occasions, I have been known to be a bit wordy.

(ahem)

As far as I can see, so long as you are doing surface intervals of an appropriate length and are diving recreational depths without violating the MOD and NDL, this isn't going to be an issue for you.

I worked some progressively shallower NDL dives starting at 80fsw using the NAUI EAN32 table, and don't see an area of concern for you.

Using the Cochran Dive Planner function in their Analyst software, there doesn't appear to be any concern, either.

Now --if you take up rebreathers, we can revisit this topic.

Edited by PlatypusMan, 02 January 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#29 Jerrymxz

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:12 PM

My 2psi on a couple of points in this thread. I do dive doubles for a couple of reasons. Redundancy of gas being the primary one. I have advanced Nitrox training that taught me to use Nitrox gases up to 100% oxygen correctly and safely. If you dive to the max NDL you will uptake the same amount of Nitrogen whether itís air or Nitrox. But on trips like the Cozumel trip where you dive for about an hour you are not diving to the max NDL. On those trips an air diver vs. a Nitrox diver, apples to apples, the Nitrox diver will uptake less nitrogen and therefore less nitrogen must be eliminated to bring your system back to equilibrium.

On dives deeper than 100 feet or so, if the logistics allow, Iíll carry a 30 or 40cuft pony of 80% to do my safety stop. It keeps me in practice and 15 feet on 80% allows me to off gas a ton of nitrogen that if diving air Iíd carry back onto the boat and into the next dives. Iím not a 20-something navy diver so anything I can do to moderate my nitrogen loading Iím all for.

I have become comfortable diving doubles so if they are available Iíll use them. Gas I leave on the boat does no one any good. On a second dive that 500psi in the tank you used on the first dive is 13 cuft of gas I have that a single tank diver does not. The trade off is they are heavy above the water and a pain to climb the ladder to get back into the boat. But they allow me to easily solve a lot of what-ifs.

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#30 Greg@ihpil

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:48 AM

Thanks guy's.
Like I said,I was just thinking ,it would be nice to extend the dive time longer....You all answered my question's. No ,I would never attempt this without getting my training in 1st. Maybe in the future I'll seriously persue the dble club.My air consumption right now is ok.I have my 50 min.or 1 hr times.Balancing my Photo time & air, as I'm finding takes discipline.

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