63 replies to this topic

[Terri]

I am appalled at some of the rudeness, immaturity and mean-spirited intolerance that I have seen displayed over this whole issue, ESPECIALLY when we were attempting to come up with a way to please everyone.

And the tone of your post is honestly any different?

I definitely think so....

[nextariel]

WOW. Definately some emotions showing here.

Since I finally found how to get in the News site, I don't care whether it means another sign in or not. I think I can figure out away using View Forums to get to it easier. I want to know if there is a new ship being sunk for an artifical reef, I want to know if a cave diver dived, maybe I can learn something from it. I want to know if Ivan rained on the Athens weekend or they are all having a great sunshiny time.

My feeling is if you want a separate News Forum, then a separate forum for the 'games' would be good. Sometimes I feel like playing and sometimes I don't.

My feeling is we are all adults if you don't want to read something don't. There are posts which I start to read and then skip, there are also individuals post I skip (my bad). I'm guessing there are others that skip my posts. We all view things differently, email and posts don't have voice inflection, smilies can help, but not always. I never mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, but I'm sure I have. I'm usually a positive person, but there have been recent events which have depressed me. I've been here since early on, and there have been times I was personally offended, but that's life. There are a number of people that have been frequent posters and then just disappear. There are many people I miss, their insight into 'single non diving' subjects was very valuable.

[Divegirl412]

News forum. Opt in. Until then, password protect. No big deal either way. While the games, songs etc might be "inane" they are not "upsetting" to anyone. If the news forums are upsetting to some (everyone is different), it is not so hard to provide other options.

[Laura]

I am appalled at some of the rudeness, immaturity and mean-spirited intolerance that I have seen displayed over this whole issue, ESPECIALLY when we were attempting to come up with a way to please everyone.

And the tone of your post is honestly any different?

MV,
Yes, I feel that it is. I stated my points thoroughly and honestly, without resorting to sarcasm, accusations and/or name calling, which I have seen in some other's post, both in this thread, and in others.

And from the responses I have seen, some other people agree with this.

Laura

[mvillanueva]

We disagree then and see these threads differently.

I have not seen this rudeness you speak of in this debate -- aside from your post. I have seen some exasperation, but not this "rudeness, immaturity and mean-spirited intolerance." Frankly, you are the one cursing and making extremely broad accusations about rudeness, conspiracies, about personal insults to divers and what not. Like I said -- I don't see what you see.

In fact, the tone in much of your post is very similar to Kamala's two posts in the California Fish Thread when she raged about the same issues -- shrill, rude, and pretty much of diatribe -- some points, yes, but overall, a fairly angry response with a healthy dose of how hard we work to please you.

So I will have to disagree with you, and DD, and ioconsult on this matter.

My initial question, posed in another thread, was really straightforward and simple: Kamala posted a lot of depressingly long news about the hurricanes in the general threads, links, reports and all -- and yet the news is stuck in jail -- or in a password protected forum behind the icon of a steel door if you prefer.

To me, that an owner can do one thing, but everyone else has to go by a different set of rules is a bias, an inconsistency. If you want to see conspiracies or rudeness in that comment, or in my initial question, I cannot help that.

[Terri]

I have not seen this rudeness  you speak of in this debate -- aside from your post.  I have seen some exasperation, but not this "rudeness, immaturity and mean-spirited intolerance." Frankly, you are the one cursing and making extremely broad accusations about rudeness, conspiracies, about personal insults to divers and what not.  Like I said -- I don't see what you see.

You really don't see rudeness and accusations of conspiracy from one of your posts? IMHO, I think you've been the one to set the tone right from the beginning...but I guess we all have different perceptions of what constitutes 'rude'.

From a post by mvillanueva:

I think it is stupid now, and it will be just as stupid and as idiotic in the future. The IQ of this idea aint gonna magically rise.

These are policies of this board???

This reeks of manipulation and control.

Edited by ioconsult, 25 September 2004 - 07:22 PM.

[DandyDon]

Sir, some of your outbursts have seemed very aggressive, as did this last post. Such can bring out little support, but much frustration, and therefore opposition. You're doing much to destroy your arguements.

My initial question, posed in another thread, was really straightforward and simple: Kamala posted a lot of depressingly long news about the hurricanes in the general threads, links, reports and all -- and yet the news is stuck in jail -- or in a password protected forum behind the icon of a steel door if you prefer.

No, that was me, in part. My mistake. Kamala moved them to News. We're all learning. Well, some of us are. But it's not a jail; why you continue to undermine your own arguement with such untruths is puzzling, but you only alientate others with such, and perhaps excite yourself more? It's only behind a door, which requires opening. Key is in the door. My gawd!

To me, that an owner can do one thing, but everyone else has to go by a different set of rules is a bias, an inconsistency. If you want to see conspiracies or rudeness in that comment, or in my initial question, I cannot help that.

The accusations of conspiracies have been your's all along.

True, the owner and to some degree other admins can and must do things we others cannot do, as their responsibilities are great. And they are learning much, on how to approach this stuff in the future, as well as handle seemingly hostile members.

So, are you going to be up for a SD.com trip if you win here. I know we're all looking forward to spending time with you! (Sorry, could not resist!)

[Walter]

I don't believe anyone has gone over the line in this thread. While some have expressed frustration, I haven't seen anyone get rude.

There is often more than one way to look at things. Kamala saw the updates on hurricane damage as imformation related to future trips. For this reason, she posted the reports in the Where in the World forums. It was news and as such should have been posted in the News forum. Upon having it pointed out by Michael and upon reflection, she realized it was better suited for the News forum. BTW, I moved three of the threads, Kamala moved the fourth.

It is likely the final decision on this will issue will be based on principles rather than what is popular.

I have a great deal of respect for both viewpoints.

[maninthesea]

How amusing.

Personally I would rather opt out of some of the happy birthday fluff, but I take it all in stride. I am a guest here and the owner and moderators can do whatever they want. Its their project/buisness. I am sure I could not even come close to the # of members and especialy the quality of members if I started my own site. I doubt many of the rest could either.

anyway I am really not up to speed on how to work these lists so could some one tell me how I get to the place where I enter the password and start recieving the news again? I would be starting from the 50 most recent topics page.

Help is apreciated.

Jim

[Walter]

Jim,

Click on SingleDivers.com Surface Interval at the top of the page. Scroll down to the Dive! Dive! Dive! catagory. Click on the News Bites forum. Type in the password, "News."

Walter

[Walter]

Discussion here has been very helpful.

Lots of excellent points made on both sides.

A few important points:

1. An opt in option will be available in the next few months.

2. News has not created a stir on the board in the past.

3. While news is readily available the pasword does make it slightly more difficult to access and much easier to miss.

4. We fully support a free exchange of ideas.

5. Some feel news detracts from the positive, upbeat atmosphere of the board.

6. This issue has created negative feelings, more than the news could ever do.

For these reasons, I've eliminated the password in the News Bites forum.

[triggerfish]

thank you walter.

[DandyDon]

Probably a wise decision. Not my fav, but probably for the best.

Glad the shoot-out is over.

Someday - I hope to have half as many posts as TF.

[ShamuLovesMe]

6. This issue has created negative feelings, more than the news could ever do.

This seems to be the biggest point to learn from, in my opinion. To avoid negative feelings, the admins found a simple workaround to keep news from those who don't want to see it, yet keep it accessible to those who do. The debate that arose -- from a very small but very vocal minority -- caused many more negative feelings than the original issue. I'm glad that the admins made a decision based on principles, rather than on popularity (the kind of leadership that we unfortunately don't see enough of in politics). Too often, in our crazy society, the tyranny of the minority effects change because they're loud, not because they're right.

I question why mvillanueva chooses to frequent SD.com. If it's for the information found in the discussion forums, then I'd think he would prefer one of the many other diving-related resources that aren't cluttered with games, birthday wishes and other "inane" posts. If it's for the camaraderie that makes SD.com so unique, then I would think he would want to show more respect to his fellow members. After this heated debate, there's probably more than one member who wouldn't want to go on a trip with him.

Anyway, I hope this tempest in a teacup is over. This thread is the only place I've seen a departure from the enthusiastic, amicable and just plain fun tone of this site. I hope it stays that way.

[TheSassyRabbit]

Wow- dang! I go away for a little while and come back to the best thread of all - just sorry I wasn't here for the two cents part from the beginning. Sorry, but now I'm

We're worried about how visitors may view the site if they read the news, but not worried about what they may think when they read this string of posts? If not for Walter's periodic "healthy discussion" comments, I'd wonder about the folks on here, or the site in general if this was the first or only post I read.

But, putting that aside, I thought there were some great points, albeit a few that seemed a bit overly emotional given the topic. I'm with the diver who said he'd like to have an opt-in/opt-out for the birthday club before the news, but really, in the end, entering a password, not entering a password, separating the news, not separating the news is of no consequence to me (or my life!). I appreciate the opportunity to provide feedback - the moderators at least show sensitivity to their consumers, and in the end, I think the moderators all seem like reasonable people (who want the board to be successful). As long as we know how to get to the news or other segregated areas it if we want it, it seems like a simple resolve.

Look forward to seeing how this plays itself out.