11 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

Lionfish in the Caribbean to be exact. Are they friend or foe? Should we shoot them with pole spears or just cameras? There is no right or wrong answer...but we can use this thread to help educate those reading about lionfish in general and the best way to deal with them when diving.

So what do you think?


NOTE: All replies need to be respectful and the respected. Only by sharing our different opinions will we be drawn closer together and learn to see more perspectives.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

.... given time and no attempt to curb their growth, they will start choking off the native species over time through sheer numbers.

PPM

That is already happening in the Caribbean, and it's sad to see the decline in numbers of the algae-eating fish (and it's a drastic decline in some areas!). That is affecting the reef itself in a negative way.....there is a symbiotic relationship there that has definitely been affected.

The dichotomy between the effect of lionfish on the Caribbean and the Indo-Pacific is interesting, though. It is said that they have no natural enemies in the Caribbean, and that may be true. But, even in marine parks in the Caribbean where there are firm no-kill rules, you don't see them around every corner. In the Indo-Pacific, (Anilao, Philippines to be exact) there are millions of lionfish everywhere, in a wide variety of colors and patterns. They tend to be smaller than those I see in the Caribbean, but they certainly outnumber those I see in the Caribbean. The question is, if they have natural enemies in the Indo-Pacific, then why are they behind every freakin' coral head? And, there is certainly an abundance of all other fish in the Indo-Pacific, so the lionfish have not taken over and they've had a very long time to do so.

Perhaps there is a balance that must first be reached, and it may take a thousand years (or a million!) to reach that balance in the Caribbean.

Hope it's sooner, but the ones we wiped out in Mayaguana will not make much of a difference in the long run.

[Parrotman]

I think that divers should hunt them if they want to. While diving in the Philippines this year we saw lionfish everywhere but they were very small for the most part. And yet I have never been any where diving that the fish life was as abundant. This would mean that the lionfish are not wiping out the reef fish. I asked the dive master on the boat about them and he said that the locals eat them. He also said that Eels and octopus will eat them. Maybe the answer is hunting them to keep them under control. Seems to work in the Philippines.

[WreckWench]

Something I noticed from last year to this year in Mayaguana the Western most island in the Bahamas is the REDUCTION of lionfish. Yes the REDUCTION of the critters. Only a few locals fish for them so my guess is they are eating out their food supply. Only on the winward side of the island did the sharks respond when we were hunting them. On the leeward side the sharks were non-existent.

Sadly other fish populations were much smaller as well since they compete for the same food supplies.

[Hipshot]

I've never tried them, but I've heard that they're good to eat. Of course, it requires extreme care when cleaning them - I'd let a professional do it.

If we could start a rumor that they're an aphrodesiac, they'd be fished-out in no time.

Rick

[georoc01]

Spear fishing will only have a limited effect. Until we find a better solution, its going to continue the destroy the ecosystems.

That said, humans are very good at exterminating species. Just a matter of time still we figure out a way to do it.

[Parrotman]

as a side note, when I was in Papua New Guinea two years ago I did a 10 day live aboard. Lots of dives over a wide range of dive sites and I only saw a half dozen or so lion fish. PNG is in the coral triangle as is Anilao. Where we were diving was quite remote so the area was not being fished by locals. I have never been diving anywhere in the world that had such pristine coral as PNG but there also was not as much fish life as I saw in Anilao. I would venture to guess that the lion fish population has a direct connection to the amount of food available. Anilao, abundant sea life, lots of lion fish. PNG not so much in the sea life, very few lion fish. Another observation is that both Anilao and PNG had little to no algae issues on the coral where as the Carib is infected with algae. Could it be that lion fish thrive where there are a) an abundance of fish and or b) the reefs are not healthy due to algae infestations? Who knows for sure. I do not think that there are any good studies on the subject. Obviously lion fish like the Carib and do well in the environment. If the human race can wipe out the worlds populations of Whales, sea turtles etc. the should be able to get control of the lion fish. After all it is what we humans do best.. drive species to extinction.

[ThatJoeGuy]

I think you have your causality backwards. Lionfish eat all the algae eaters, then the algae thrives.

[Parrotman]

I think you have your causality backwards. Lionfish eat all the algae eaters, then the algae thrives.

That is my point Joe. The Philippines are crawling with lion fish and there is no algae problem So if in fact they eat all of the algae eaters why then no algae growth on the reef?

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

There are tons of algae eaters still on the reefs in the Philippines, along with the tons of lionfish. Perhaps there is a balance in the Philippines not seen in other places?