16 replies to this topic

[Diesel]

I have a back inflated Zeagle Ranger that i dive with now. Can I get some more info on switching to a BP/W. How much more streamline is it? Does it pack easier. Really ant info that you can give me would help.

Thanks

[MNJoe]

The thing I like the most about having a BP and Wing is versatility. I dive warm and cold water, so between my stainless steel BP, Aluminum BP, 45# Wing, 18# wing, weighted STA, Non Weighted STA, different wet suits, dry suit, steel tanks and AL rental tanks I can really mix and match for my situation.

The second thing is it gets my weight distributed over my back. With my AL BP, Steel tank and a tropical wetsuit, I need no extra weight. When diving my drysuit I get 12# with my SS BP and Weighted STA, so that is 12# not in my weight harness, the steel tank is a blessing in that situation also.

I never owned a Jacket BCD only rented, so I am not a good source for info on packing or streamline. I can say that after diving a BP for a few years, I did rent a jacket BCD for a couple dives, it didn't cause me any issues with being streamline or trim.

Keith aka MNJoe

[VADiver]

The BP/wing combo is the best way to go in my opinion...is versatile and can be used with single and double tanks. Unlike a jacket BC, you will never outgrow a BP / wing set-up. If you want to read about the benifits visit Global Underwater Explorers and read about their configuration - it's all holgarthian.

In this config you are more streamlined and have better weight distribution - centered over the lungs as opposed to being around your waist.

It's an everyday set-up, not just a technical rig.

[Diesel]

Thank you

[jesterdiver]

I'm also a huge fan of the B/P Wing configuration. MNJoe puts it best with versatility. I've owned everything from jacket, rear inflate (I have a Zeagle too), to BP Wing. The fundamental problem with most BCD's, is that in their attempt to be able to be a "one size fits all" type of diving solution, they don't do anything particularly well.

Many of their design features revolve around activity on the surface. Mountaineering design features with cummerbunds and tons of padding and straps to deal with the load while standing. Air cells, like in jacket designs, meant to keep you up right on the surface of the water. Oversized bladders to be able to handle a wide cross section of tanks, exposure protection, and weighting needs.

The BP and wing gives you the ability to dive what you need for the occasion. Extra padding and straps come at cost of additional lead you need to lug around to sink it. Most commercial BCD;s can be easily between 2-4 lbs positively bouyant. That's an extra 2-4 lbs of lead you carry just to sink that Zeagle. Which is more air you have to add to your bcd to be buoyant at depth, means larger profile in the water, more drag, and more air consumption.

I dive my BP Wing in the tropics with a full 3mm wetsuit with either my aluminum plate, aluminum 80 tank, and about 4lbs of lead or I use my steel plate and carry no lead at all. With a steel tank I could dive lighter aluminum plate and still have no extra lead. In the tropics i strap on my 20lb wing, which is still more than I need, and when diving a single steel tank and drysuit I use my bigger 35lbs wing.

Having the weight distributed across your back with the backplate stabilizes it under your wing where your buoyancy is. Makes it much easier to keep that efficient horizontal positioning in the water. My harness, wing, and plate always travel with me in my carry on and can fit in a medium sized book bag. Depending if weight is an issue i can choose my 2lb aluminum plate or my 6 lb steel plate. Since I'm only diving a wing as large as I feel I need i can go small and be very streamlined in the water.

I would definitely encourage anyone thinking of trying out a BP and wing. I've seen many people go from BC's to BP/wing, but never seen someone go from BP/wing to BC. I'm sure it's happened, I just haven't seen it.

[Diesel]

Jesterdiver,

Thanks for the info. i am definitely thinking hard about getting a BP/ Wing... My Small Zeagle Ranger is still a little big for me. I use the crouch strap to insure that the BCD doesn't slide up to my chest.

Edited by Diesel, 04 April 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[jesterdiver]

I had the same problem with my Zeagle. When I got it I actually LOVED it! Having the air cell all on the back felt great and it felt less constrictive than my previous jacket style BCD. It never fit quite right as I always had to cinch down straps to get it to stay stable. But comparatively speaking it was great.

I bought my brand new Zeagle, was loving it, 3 months later a friend let me try their BP/W, I then ended up selling my Zeagle to my friend at a nice discount for him LOL! And buying myself my first BP/W. Now I can't imagine diving without it! No matter what kind of diving I want to do going forward, I've got the perfect platform for it!

Good luck!! And feel free if you have anymore questions!

[Jerrymxz]

The thing I like the most about having a BP and Wing is versatility. I dive warm and cold water, so between my stainless steel BP, Aluminum BP, 45# Wing, 18# wing, weighted STA, Non Weighted STA, different wet suits, dry suit, steel tanks and AL rental tanks I can really mix and match for my situation.

The second thing is it gets my weight distributed over my back. With my AL BP, Steel tank and a tropical wetsuit, I need no extra weight. When diving my drysuit I get 12# with my SS BP and Weighted STA, so that is 12# not in my weight harness, the steel tank is a blessing in that situation also.

I never owned a Jacket BCD only rented, so I am not a good source for info on packing or streamline. I can say that after diving a BP for a few years, I did rent a jacket BCD for a couple dives, it didn't cause me any issues with being streamline or trim.

Keith aka MNJoe

I've been watching this for a couple of days and wanted to put my 2psi into it. this post by MNJoe is spot on. I have Three plates; a stainless steel, an aluminumm and a composite one. I have three harnesses, two comfort harnesses from OMS and a basic strap one. add to that a double wing with 45lbs of lift and a single wing. With all this adaptability I don't have any problem getting it right for the dive I'm doing. Everything from cold weather drysuit diving with my doubles to diving in the tropics in a thin skin and an aluminum 80. The other great side effect is I very seldom use weight when I dive and when I do it's less the 6lbs. This is a great thread thanks for getting it rolling.

[Diesel]

Speaking of tanks, I have 2 HP steel 80's that I love. I like the negative pound that they are so I don't have to have as much weight on me. Would I be to negative with steel tanks or would I just need a bigger wing.

Thanks

[jesterdiver]

It all depends on your kit for the dives you have in mind. You really only need enough lift to be able to float you and your kit at the heaviest point of your dive, the beginning with full tanks, and of course to offset the loss of buoyancy due to compression at depth. There are weight calculators you can google that take into account the weight of your gear, your weight, exposure protection, etc.

Your Zeagle is about 30-40lbs of lift and probably handles your tanks fine. And that's the beauty of BP/W, you can just get a wing that takes care of what you need. I dive steel HP100's singles with a 35lb wing while diving with a drysuit.

[Diesel]

Well I live in Florida, and I'm a Florida boy as well. I get cold very easy so I wear a 5 mil wet suit in the summer and winter but will be getting a 7 mil soon. I like to keep as warm as possible. Any thoughts on manufacturer of a BP/Wing

[jesterdiver]

Hollis and OMS are two of my favorite manufacturers of BP/W systems in terms of quality and cost. You should message Kamala, she has relationships with the manufacturers and is usually able to get the gear at a pretty good discount!

If you're diving 5-7mm wetsuits with steel tanks I would gravitate towards a larger lift wing like 30-35lbs. 7mm wetsuits compress a lot and with the added weight of a full steel tank, you want to have enough lift at depth. If you get chilly, like I do (proud warm water wuss! Under 80 and I'm already looking at my 5mm lol) you might want to look into drysuit diving.

Some dive organizations have a philosophy that diving thicker than a 5mm wetsuit with steel tanks is inadvisable due to the fact that you may be carrying more weight than you can kick up from depth in the event of a BC failure. Considering you may have limited propulsion, having a backup buoyancy from a drysuit would make it much easier to kick up weight from depth in the case of a bcd failure. And of course means you will never be cold!

No matter what the main goal, is to be diving as balanced a rig as possible. Carrying minimal extra lead, if any, is a good indication that you are balanced. I agree with VADiver, check out the GUE site, although I don't agree with all aspects of their philosophy, it is an excellent resource and has some great youtube videos explaining a balanced rig and the advantages of BP wing and the hogarthian rig.

[Diesel]

I am actually looking at the Dive Rite Transplate Harness & Al Bp and the 32# Hog wing.

Thanks

[WreckWench]

Diesel what attracts you most about the set up you are looking at? Price? If that is the main reason then Jose is right...we have relationships with:

OMS
DeepSeaSupply
Hollis
Edge
and DiveRite

[WreckWench]

Here is another perspective:

I am a travel diver that occasionally uses a steel cf100 tank and is also a cold wuss so dives 5mill + lava core all the time and 7mil if actually chilly OR a dry suit.

I chose the bp/w set up so I could change out wings if needed. I have dove but never owned an alum plate because I want the steel to offset my lead needs. (It only adds a few pounds to my total dive kit so I bring a few less clothes and put a few more things into my travel vest and we are set).

So for all my diving needs including:

• alum 80 warm water 5mil wet suit
• steel 100 warm water 5mil wet suit
• steel 100 + 30cf pony bottle 5mil wet suit
• steel 100 cold water dry suit
• alum 80 cold water dry suit
• alum 80 cold water 7mil wet suit

I use:

• OMS or DeepSea Supply (DSS) steel backplate 4-5 pounds
• OMS 32# wing
• Hog (DSS) or nearly Hog set up OMS (has only 1 quick release on each side and due to shoulder injury I sometimes have to use it)

And guess what? I can dive perfectly in every situation and never need to change my configuration.

Add'l Benefits:

• This kits travels well weighing under 12 lbs including the steel bp/w and harness.
• I never have to change my configuration (unless I'm diving doubles)
• I do not need a single tank adpt
• I always dive the same set up so in an emergency everything is rote and everything is the same
• I have plenty of lift to help control another diver which happens when I'm a Rent-A-Buddy
• I can also use this set up in the Cooper River and bring up TONS of artifacts diving wet and still have enough lift

So if you want to truly save money...find a combo system that travels well and supports your local diving and by having one configuration...you'll be set for most if not all of your diving needs and you'll save a ton by having one set up.