16 replies to this topic

[Genesis]

“A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches – that is the right and privilege of any free American.�

Any takers?

PS: Its very relavent to diving....

[WileEDiver]

“A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches – that is the right and privilege of any free American.�

Any takers?

PS: Its very relavent to diving....

Written by Edward Abbey, author of the book, Desert Solitaire: A Season in the Wilderness.

[Genesis]

Correct - but you only answered half the question

[WileEDiver]

Correct - but you only answered half the question

I thought I'd let someone else in on the fun.

[Genesis]

Hehehee.... let's hope someone does!

(Yeah, the original post is an intentional "tweak".... but perhaps it will make some folks think just a bit about their positions.....)

[RICHinNC]

Right now my position is on my left cheek.....ahhhh...switched to the right cheek. Huh....the FBI at my door....do I dive????

Ok....back to my book.....""...the solo diver should always......"""

[Walter]

To answer the second half of your post: If some people did not take that approach to life, none of us would be diving and diving would never advance. Keep in mind, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. If you want to explore in a given area, it's much safer (and your explorations will progress faster) if you first get all available training from experts in that particular field before striking out on your own, For example, if I decided I wanted to explore caves, I could take the original statement and decide I could learn to dive caves without ever going through a cave diving course. Assuming I lived through the learning process, I might eventually discover better, safer methods of cave diving than currently exist. Keep in mind, odds are I would die in the process. I could accomplish more and do so much sooner if I adapted my approach to first get all available training in cave diving before looking at new approaches. Risks shouldn't be unnecessary risks, those come not from "A venturesome minority," but from a foolhardy one.

[Genesis]

Incorrect on the second half of the question.

Any other takers? (I'll post the answer later today)

(BTW, this test is somewhat like the Second Amendment one - the following phrase is very difficult to mis-parse, but many simply pretend its not there.... and no obstacles should be placed in their path.....)

[WileEDiver]

Incorrect on the second half of the question. 

Wouldn't the question be better phrased "and how does Genesis consider it relavent to diving?" or even "relevant"?

[Diverbrian]

Incorrect on the second half of the question. 

Wouldn't the question be better phrased "and how does Genesis consider it relavent to diving?" or even "relevant"?

I happen to agree with you. I am in Walter's camp on this one regardless of the original post. I read it and chose to ignore that one portion myself. My attitude is that one must first learn the rules and the reasons for them before deciding to change them. That is paraphrased and I don't know who wrote it, but that is my motto.

I am sure that many of the cave recovery teams see the results of that attitude too many times or they wouldn't be in existence. As well, (and this guy survived uninjured), I would have been sorely tempted to take an individual that penetrated the engine room on the Cedarville below decks and prayed for heavy waves to hide the results of what I was doing. This was after he safely ascended with a great deal of help to save his silly behind.

They had to run a tank and reg down to him and hand it to him through a porthole. Then a team of trained divers went in to get him and get him through deco. This happened a few years ago.

It is also my right as an American to get sued for advocating and promoting foolhardy things .

[Genesis]

The cite is from the judge that overruled NOAA's ban on diving the Monitor, allownig Gary Gentile to do so.

NOAA's argument for the ban was that it was "too dangerous."

BTW, you might actually try reading what I've written before you conclude that I'm advocating something "dangerous."

In fact, what I'm advocating is that the AGENCIES are the ones who are dangerous - not the presence of trianing, but rather the way they approach it.

The first rule of debate is to actually read your opponent's point before flying off the handle with a response.....

[jextract]

Don't forget that the very next sentence in that quote is: "But the rest, the majority, most of them new to the out-of-doors, will need and welcome assistance, instruction and guidance."

[Marvel]

Don't forget that the very next sentence in that quote is: "But the rest, the majority, most of them new to the out-of-doors, will need and welcome assistance, instruction and guidance."

Context is everything- thanks Jamie.

[Genesis]

That next sentence doesn't change the first - those who want/need and/or welcome assistance are, of course, free to obtain it.

The issue is one of freedom - or lack thereof - to calibrate risk and reward in one's personal life. The judge in the Monitor case understood that this is a basic tenet of life in America in throwing out NOAA's assertion that it was too dangerous - and thus should be prohibited - to do what Gary Gentile wished to do.

Given that this was in fact a sport diving case, the point should be clear.

[jextract]

Couldn't agree with you more, Karl. As I alluded to in another thread, I think you and I would have much agreement in our points of view. Just wanted to provide a little more of the quote for context, as Marvel pointed out. One of my favorite quotes (and I know this is skirting the no-politics rule) is by former Senator Barry Goldwater, who said "... if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' interests, I shall reply that I was informed their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.�