14 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

For the people bored with playful banter (all.... well.... so there isn't anyone here like that. Sue me!) Joining on Walter's and No Pressure's line, I would like us to think a little (Ok, I know that isn't a pleasant thought here.)

What does everybody here think are the traits of a good diver? What would you like to emulate more of to make your diving a more fun experience and make it safer in your opinion?

I'll start.

I would like more of the buoyancy and ease underwater of the teachers that taught me. I doubt that I will ever quite be where I want in this department and, believe or not, that is a good thing.

I would like to bear in mind the humility shown one instructor of mine that dives 200 ft. wrecks on trimix and calls himself a rookie.

In short, I like the attitude in a good diver that knows that have something to learn on every dive. That attitude, IMHO, is where a good diver starts. The buoyancy control and calm underwater will flow from a balance of confidence in one's skills and humility that the diver is a guest in an awesome world.

Or, we can talk about blondes, but that would be any thread here..... Right, fellow members?

[Walter]

Two things come immediately to mind.

1. The willingness to think. Don't blindly follow, think about why so you can adjust.

2. Attitude. Keeping an open mind, a willingness to learn and the awareness that there is a lot more to learn will keep a diver seeking knowledge.

[drbill]

As usual, Walter offers sage advice. I feel I can learn from any dive or any diver if I keep my mind open to new input. Of course what I may learn is what NOT to do, but that is as important as what to do!

It bothers me that some approaches to diving do not take such an open mind. For example, when I first got certified (after diving for a number of years without), my instructor (who was an extremely well-known and respected diving personality in SoCal) taught us NOT to think about many things. He expected us to follow the book and not question whether something was right or wrong. He did come from a military diving background (as did many of the pioneers), and I think his instruction was generally quite good despite the rote approach.

Another example is the DIR philosophy. To me they seem overly rigid. This is not to suggest that one cannot learn many good approaches from DIR training. However, in my opinion their ideas on dive equipment take only a limited range of dive approaches into consideration. With respect to my gear set-up, I'm about as non-DIR as they come... but it suits my particular diving pattern as a videographer who spends a lot of time "bottom scratching" to get footage.

Dr. B

Edited by drbill, 24 April 2004 - 09:26 AM.

[chinacat46]

I think buoyancy control is very important. Most divers wear to much weight which causes them to put to much air in their BC. This in turn causes more problems. So get the lead out. Another thing that gets me is people who carry every piece of equipment they own. I like to be streamlined and bring only what I need for the dive I'm on. If I'm not doing a wreck why carry a wreck reel, four lights and 3 knifes. I saw this guy in Bonaire we called Mr. Equipment. He had all of the above and then some, two computers(maybe 3 I didn't look at his extra console). Taking your time is also very important to me. I can spend the whole dive in a very small area and see more then the people who swim a mile. Finally I have to agree with Walter about attitude there is always more to learn even when you think you've done it all and seen it all. Check your ego at the door.

- Chuck

[kevininpo]

Since l got change back from my last 2 cents worth, l'll throw it in as well . The things l have noticed that are important to me are these...redundancy in equipment- l like to be prepared for for most things that can be forseen...2 lights at nite, l dive with 2 computers, 1 on my console and 1 on my wrist, and probably most important, a pony bottle. Spare air canisters are a waste IMHO, and in an emergency are not gonna be of much help. l think all divers should take a rescue course, more about being able to take care of themselves, but it just makes them that much better as a dive partner. Buoyancy is another big issue...who likes a mud puppy?? PADI offers a peak performance course that should be a must do, and l imagine that other cert agencies do as well. Awareness of oneself and others is what l look for in a diver, and the knowledge that every dive is an opportunity to learn something new.....be the manta
Kevin

[Diverbrian]

Interesting replies so far. After a conversation with a fellow diver, I want to add something to mine:

A good diver listens to their instincts about a dive. If they think they should not dive, they don't. And, they NEVER give another diver flack about calling a dive for any reason. As the saying goes...

There are old divers and bold divers, but no old AND bold divers.

[kevininpo]

well, walter, the peak performance class is a bit more than just finding what/where, neutral is but where it is in regards to breath, weight and relaxation. most students who take this course will drop a minimum of 10lbs weight. you seem to be a very knowlegable diver and l don't wanna seem contradictory, just a different opinion is all BTW, isn't neutrally buoyant redundant??

[Diverbrian]

well, walter, the peak performance class is a bit more than just finding what/where, neutral is but where it is in regards to breath, weight and relaxation. most students who take this course will drop a minimum of 10lbs weight. you seem to be a very knowlegable diver and l don't wanna seem contradictory, just a different opinion is all  BTW, isn't neutrally buoyant redundant??

Kevin,

Walter's point is (and I agree) is that if the Open Water course is taught properly, there is no need for another course purely on buoyancy issues. The courses that I assist in (and obviously Walter's) teach the issues that you discuss up front. The students (myself and every other experienced diver that I know of included) will still drop about 10 pounds of weight or more just from relaxing and not holding that little reserve of air that new divers instinctively hold in their lungs (especially since we dive cold water up here which is a major shock when it hits the face and starts seeping through a wetsuit). That comes with learning to breathe fully and that doesn't come in a course. That comes from time and actual diving.

And BTW, I don't recommend calling Walter "Walt" if you are trying to make your point.

I really didn't start this thread with the intent to start a debate as much as collect ideas for people to read and think about when they go on a dive trip.

The above is friendly advice. I agree that buoyancy control is very important. I also feel that attitude leads to improvement in all areas and that this makes attitude THE number one attribute of a good diver. But, that is my opinion and may not be shared by other divers here. Keep the thoughts coming, all of you!

[Walter]

Kevin,

Unfortunately, many instructors intentionally overweight their students. A case in point is the buddy I mentioned earlier in this thread. She was diving with 24 lbs and is now down to 8. She didn't take a Peak Performance Buoyancy, she merely dived with me and I suggested weighting her before our first dive. Because so many instructors overweight their students, there is a need to learn proper buoyancy later. The Peak Performance Buoyancy class serves this purpose. A better solution would be to teach buoyancy the right way initially. A diver who sheds 10 lbs in a Peak Performance Buoyancy course was overweighted by their instructor in their OW class. Another question I have is if an instructor overweights his OW students, why should we believe he can do a better job of teaching buoyancy control and properly weighting students in the Peak Performance Buoyancy class?

BTW, isn't neutrally buoyant redundant??

No. Let's look at what Webster says about them:

Buoyancy 1a: the property of floating on the surface of a liquid or fluid: the tendency of a body to float or rise when submerged in a fluid being dependent upon the excess of the specific gravity of the fluid over that of the body. b: the property of a fluid by which it exerts an upward force on a body placed in it.

Neutral My note: "neutrally" wasn't found in Webster's unabridged dictionary, however, adding "ly" does not change the base meaning of words, it merely changes them to adverbs 3a: being neither one thing nor the other

These two words convey totally different concepts. If they had similar definitions, they would be redundant. Since they don't, they aren't. Since you bring up redundant, there are instances of it in diving such as "SIT time" which quite literally is "Surface Interval Time time." Not dive related, but still irritating is when I make a purchase with my debit card, most cashiers will say, "enter your PIN number," which is literally, "enter your Personal Identification Number number."

[chinacat46]

When I was in Cabo I was diving with a newly certified friend. When we were getting our weights he asked for 20 lbs. I suggested for him to do a buoyancy check and he said a what? Any way I got him to shed 4lbs before the first dive and 2 more a couple of dives later. He is a bit overweight and not in the best physical condition either. I suggested that loosing some weight and working out would help with his air consumption. He is a good friend and took it the right way but some people might have been offended by a remark like that. So I guess another think important to diving which we haven't mentioned is staying in shape. Besides being overweighted some divers need to diet! Being in shape means not needing as much weight and definitely helps with air consumption. I know it wouldn't hurt me to lose another 5 lbs. But as most of us know those are the toughest ones to lose. I lose em and quickly find them

- Chuck

Edited by chinacat46, 25 April 2004 - 09:15 AM.

[mischievous]

i guess i was lucky to never have had the problem with being overweighted in freshwater (the only thing i've dived in so far). jim aka narwhal made sure we were properly weighted in our OW class and again during our certification weekend @ clear springs when some people had on 5 mils that they hadn't used before.

[Walter]

mischievous,

Fortunately, there are really good instructors out there making sure their students are prepared. The bad ones get lots of attention, but the good ones are worth their weight in gold. I like Jim and it's good to hear confirmation that he is, indeed, one of the good ones. I'm so glad you took the time to share that with us!

Thanks!

Walter

[Laura]

Good topic!

I believe in being "life-long learner" in all areas of my life, diving included. So I continue to take classes, read, ask questions and learn from those more experienced than I am.

I think my greatest opportunity for improvement lies in the fact that I would like to be a better navigator.

Laura

[WreckWench]

Buoyance Classes or Lessons...

Since the subject has come up I think they are of value for several reasons EVEN if all the skills were taught in your open water class.

1. Repetition...it is good and a class or lesson like this (or diving with a very experienced diver who can help you accomplish the same thing) is excellent.
2. Review...how many times do you attend ANY type of seminar and say to yourself...I knew that! Well of course you do but bringing it to the forefront is half the value.
3. Fine tuning...so I learned things like weight placement in addition to total amount of lead can impact your buoyancy. Learning to distribute weight to my tank and other places was very helpful.
4. Too much rubber...as my diving career progresses I find I need more and more rubber. I find I move less and less in the water waiting for that elusive magical photo op or perhaps I'm scouting for treasure or just slowly drifting along. All in all I don't move as much and therefore I seem to get cold faster. So it seems that as my rubber needs go up...so do my lead needs. And since I'm really a wuss and have been known to change my wetsuits during the day of diving ESPECIALLY when on a liveaboard...my weight and sometimes my buoyancy changes too! Buoyancy clinics have helped me tremendously with this problem.
5. New gear configurations...when I first started diving I certainly wasn't using the gear that I am now...ie. steel tanks, reels, backplate, etc. So as my gear needs have changed...so has my weight needs and therefore my buoyancy. However sometimes people aren't aware of how much or little impact these changes can have and so a class or lesson in buoyancy is a good refresher to what they learned or didn't learn in their OW class.
6. Time in the water...no I don't mean the length of the dive but rather how long its been since you had your OW class or even your last class for that matter. So sometimes a refresher is very helpful.
7. Measurement...that which we measure improves. So taking a class in buoyance techniques or even a private lesson from someone like Walter means that you'll automatically improve because you've put attention to it!
8. BC...I've found my type of BC impacts my buoyancy...perhaps this is just me and was already covered under gear changes but different style bcd's change my buoyancy in the water! And yes...sometimes it can merely be the bcd holding some trapped air...but again...its important to be aware of these things so you can bring the total amount of lead DOWN!!!


And speaking of which...I'm due for another private lesson to improve my buoyancy!! Maybe we'll add a clinic or class to our Athens weekend shindig as well, for others like me!!! -ww

[mischievous]

Maybe we'll add a clinic or class to our Athens weekend shindig as well, for others like me!!! -ww

W2, i'd be interested in that class if you offer it at Athens.