71 replies to this topic

[llort]

Why did you get certified through PADI?

[WillDiveForBeer]

Why did you get certified through PADI? 

One can look at it as, if it wasn't for PADI, I probably wouldn't be diving. Like your signature says, they are like Starbucks, making diving easy and accessible to the masses. I think it is safe to presume that there is a large enough group of people like myself, when on vacation, decide to give diving a try and do not know or have access to other diving and training organizations.

[deleted this part of posting due to a change in another posting, for those who might have read this at 5am]

-Mike-

Edited by WillDiveForBeer, 17 May 2005 - 07:04 AM.

[Geek]

My impression, which may not be accurate, is that NAUI is a bit more rigorous, but less common than PADI. However, it is the agency most directly competitive with PADI. The YMCA courses are not available from local YMCAs in my area, so I know nothing about them, other than positive comments like Walter's. They sound like a good choice where they are available. The remaining agencies all seem to have a technical focus. Generally, you are already into diving before they are a consideration.

I'm also curious to know what others think.

[Cold_H2O]

IMHO I think it comes down to the Instructor and what you hope to learn/achieve.
Like anything with a teacher, some are good and some should not be teaching. And the one I love might not be the best match for someone else.

Shop around MOST DEFINATELY!! Find out who the instructor is and how the lds is run. Are they looking for sell you things or help you get more skilled. I have ran into both types and will leave a shop or Instructor that is just in this to sell me stuff.

Diving is my time and money so it had better benefit me not the lds.

[Walter]

I'm also curious to know what others think.

I think consumers should do more homework before signing up for a course. I also believe there is no perfect agency. While I believe some agencies have better standards than others, I also recognize this is a value judgement and your values may differ from mine. I think excellent dive instructors are rare, but they are found in all agencies. I think we live in an instant gratification society and therefore few consumers care about more than a cheap class that finishes as quickly as possible. I believe low quality courses will be the norm unless the instant gratification approach to life changes. I think people are usually eager to hold agencies blameless ever when a problem is clearly the fault of the agency. An instructor can overcome low standards, but an agency can also set standards high making it unnecessary.

[bluedolphin]

I'm also curious to know what others think.

I think consumers should do more homework before signing up for a course. I also believe there is no perfect agency. While I believe some agencies have better standards than others, I also recognize this is a value judgement and your values may differ from mine. I think excellent dive instructors are rare, but they are found in all agencies. I think we live in an instant gratification society and therefore few consumers care about more than a cheap class that finishes as quickly as possible. I believe low quality courses will be the norm unless the instant gratification approach to life changes. I think people are usually eager to hold agencies blameless ever when a problem is clearly the fault of the agency. An instructor can overcome low standards, but an agency can also set standards high making it unnecessary.

In the process of doing Happy Hours I have had people ask me questions about where to get certified and such. I came up with a list of questions I can send them and the names of the local dive shops. When I was certified I approached it on an "interview" basis, yep I basically interviewed the dive shops asking about their program how it was conducted and all sorts of things.

Now that I have been diving for some time I realize there were lots of questions I should have asked but didn't. Hopefully my list will help people make a decision that works best for them. Just because dive shop "A" and their program works well for one person, it is not a one shoe fits all type of thing, maybe dive shop "B" has a program that works better for someone else.

If someone asks me where I take my gear for service, I can tell them, but I really can't say who has the best training. I have never taken any classes here, so I don't know each shop does their training from personal experience.

Just my 2psi.

BlueD

[Walter]

Linda,

There's a list of questions on how to find a good OW course in the FAQ's of this site. I'll repeat them here:

How long is a basic certification course?

The length of various certifying courses will vary based on the requirements of the national organization. Most certification agencies recommend 24 to 31 hours of formal instruction under the supervision of a certified instructor. This time includes both lecture and water sessions. It should be noted that these times are recommended times. SCUBA courses are all performance based. If a student needs less or more time to master the knowledge and skills, the instructor will adjust times accordingly.

All classes are not created equal. You will earn a c-card upon successful completion of any certification course and all of those c-cards will allow you the exact same privileges, there are important differences you should note. You are learning to safely move about in a potentially life threatening environment using technology which, when improperly employed, can itself be life threatening. You owe it to yourself to seek out the most comprehensive course available. Such a course will be conducted over several weeks and not over one or two weekends.

How do I find such a course and how will I know I've found it?


Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.

Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.

How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim? Divers should be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.

How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.

Check out the FAQ's, there's a ton of good info to be found. Click here for the link to the FAQ's!

[WreckWench]

Walter makes an excellent point and we spent a lot of time compiling our FAQ to help those that wish to know MORE about how to find a good instructor or a great instructor.

If someone asks me where I take my gear for service, I can tell them,

And if you do not have someone local that you trust to service your gear...please consider our own Senior Tech. He has been servicing gear since it was commercially available and works on almost every model of gear in the marketplace. He also has parts for older gear that are no longer available from the manufacturer.

He also has a 10 step process that exceeds any servicing process I've ever seen anywhere. Click here to see for yourself! And his pricing is extremely reasonable...in fact less than most who offer less.

[chrism]

I'm going to jump right in here, have only read the first page & the last. havent been here for a long time and got a lot of catchin up to do!

My personal experience is this: Took a PADI OW course back in dec 04, then took the PADI AOW march 05. I don't necessarily, think it was brilliant value, but i dont think i was ripped off either. In the UK you do need to be AOW to do the rescue diver course. Also i was going to malta diving in april so wanted to do some more dives / training before i went, as i knew a lot of the dives i wanted to do were deeper than i've dived before on the OW.

I dont think a boat dive is worth while, i did a two try dives off a rib and a hard boat! night dive would have been good, but weather put a end to that. navigation, was nothing special. deep was good, as it gave me fantastic experience of diving in poor conditions <40cm vis, and deep water obviously. It was pitch black couldnt see either the instructor or his divemaster half the time... so after that felt alot more confident about diving.

hope this was of some help,

[Geek]

My earlier comments were characterizations of the agencies, as I perceive them. I completely agree with the comments about the instructor being most important.

For any of you who have not met Walter personally, I would like to add that I have taken a course with him. I recommend him if you are in his vicinity.

[WillDiveForBeer]

I'm also curious to know what others think.

I think consumers should do more homework before signing up for a course. I also believe there is no perfect agency. While I believe some agencies have better standards than others, I also recognize this is a value judgement and your values may differ from mine. I think excellent dive instructors are rare, but they are found in all agencies. I think we live in an instant gratification society and therefore few consumers care about more than a cheap class that finishes as quickly as possible. I believe low quality courses will be the norm unless the instant gratification approach to life changes. I know everything I've said in this post is opinion, not fact.

Unfortunately that isn't always viable, especially when it is an "impulse" decision when on a vacation in warm water (Caribbean) and you decide to give diving a try. With that said, this is one (though not the only) reason why I am returning to Belize in September to get some additional certification. After meeting our fellow SD'er Peter (peterbj7), the owner of ProTech Belize, had an instant rapport with him in addition to his vast knowledge of diving, teaching certifications and willingness to help and disseminate his knowledge without taking a class (unfortunately he was sick that week and I was just enjoying a long weekend of diving rather than taking a class anyways), I've decided to go back and get some additional certifications and lessons from Peter. I have the feeling that he will spend the time, make sure that I fully understand the material and in addition to just following the book, giving the helpful hints and other observations to make myself a better diver, just not someone who wants a card to have a card.

I think the 1st time you start diving when on a vacation, you are looking for the cheapest price. Why spend $1000 for a course (or maybe $3000 if taking a college credit level course) that will give you an awesome certification when you are trying diving for the 1st time. For $300 in Cancun, I get my PADI OW certification and 4 dives in the ocean. If I don't like it, I'm only out $300 and an experience to remember and if I want to try it again, at least I have a certification already.

Now that we are all divers (except for the couple soon to be divers checking out this site), we've made the leap in saying we want to continue to dive and looking for the best route to further our education.

Since it's hard to find a great instructor, where can one go to find the instructors that will give the attention to details needed to become an excellent and safe diver?

My next few goals in diving are:

- Lower air consumption
- Better buoyancy control
- More controlled ascent
- Emergency Deco

Those seem pretty important skills to learn to maximize the diving experience and to limit problems while diving. I believe one of the courses I am looking to take (Deep Diver) covers the controlled ascent and emergency deco, but if not, I can always ask for that to be thrown into the mix .

Thanks for everyone's input and hope I haven't taken away anything from the original poster of this thread.

-Mike-

[intotheblue]

...took the PADI AOW march 05.  I don't necessarily, think it was brilliant value, but i dont think i was ripped off either.  ....  I dont think a boat dive is worth while, i did a two try dives off a rib and a hard boat! night dive would have been good, but weather put a end to that.  navigation, was nothing special. deep was good, as it gave me fantastic experience of diving in poor conditions <40cm vis, and deep water obviously.  It was pitch black couldnt see either the instructor or his divemaster half the time... so after that felt alot more confident about diving.

Good going Chrism...! Taking the AOW course should have improved your confidence and proficiency on your trip greatly. The PADI AOW course is really "additional introductory dives in different areas of interest" under the supervision of an instructor. They are beneficial to introduce a few new skills (i.e. navigation and the importance of good buoyancy control while navigating) and let you see if you have significant interest in any particular area you might want to learn more in. The navigation dive is very important even if you didn't think you got much out of it yet. Boat is "simple", yet there is alot to learn about boats and diving from boats that may not have been covered in a course that was just following the outline. Night and deep are good because everyone should experience them and best with an instructor, although I hope the instructor had his eyes on you on the deep dive! The AOW course, as I have said earlier in this thread, is not an "advanced diver" course... but it is an "advanced" Open Water course. I believe it was useful for your needs and enjoyed reading your perspective on the course. Happy diving!!! (and enjoy your rescue course... it's the best!)

ITB...