48 replies to this topic

[nuroc]

concise version: I had a trip planned from June 2nd through 6th. I got back to New York on the 5th after a mishap. On my second day of diving I had to do a 90 emergency assent. We were in a swim-through and I started sucking in salt water through my regulator. The second had the same result and before I could grab someone in the group I headed for the surface. I didn't hold my breath, drop my weight belt or fill my bc so I turned out ok, minus some stress and anxiety. I went to see a doctor on the island, Piccolo, and he gave me the clearance to fly. No symptoms.

[RICHinNC]

Glad things turned out ok for you.

And people laugh when they see my pony........
rich

[scubafanatic]

...glad to hear you made it out OK...a swim-through is an especially bad place for that to happen.......by the way, have you discovered what went wrong with your regulator?

Karl

[Walter]

I'm trying to understand exactly what happened.

On my second day of diving I had to do a 90 emergency assent.

Does that mean you came up at 90 feet per minute or you came up from 90 feet deep?

I started sucking in salt water through my regulator.

This part is clear. How much salt water were you getting? Was it flooding your mouth or was it a trickle?

The second had the same result

I have no idea what this means.

before I could grab someone in the group I headed for the surface.

Why didn't you use your octopus? The statement sounds like you wanted to go to your buddy, but your body took control and started up. That's not clear at all. Perhaps the non-concise version would be easier to understand. The only purpose of these types of reports is to figure out what exactly went wrong so it never happens to you again nor to others who read about the incident. At this point, the details are too sketchy to accomplish that. Where was your buddy? Why did you come home early?

[WileEDiver]

The second had the same result

I have no idea what this means.

before I could grab someone in the group I headed for the surface.

Why didn't you use your octopus? The statement sounds like you wanted to go to your buddy, but your body took control and started up. That's not clear at all. Perhaps the non-concise version would be easier to understand. The only purpose of these types of reports is to figure out what exactly went wrong so it never happens to you again nor to others who read about the incident. At this point, the details are too sketchy to accomplish that. Where was your buddy? Why did you come home early?

Walter-

I took "The second had the same result" to mean he did try his octo and it was also leaking.

[chinacat46]

Thats the way I took it as well. It would be nice though to have a little more info. Was it his gear or rental gear?

[intotheblue]

The second had the same result

I have no idea what this means.

before I could grab someone in the group I headed for the surface.

Why didn't you use your octopus? The statement sounds like you wanted to go to your buddy, but your body took control and started up. That's not clear at all. Perhaps the non-concise version would be easier to understand. The only purpose of these types of reports is to figure out what exactly went wrong so it never happens to you again nor to others who read about the incident. At this point, the details are too sketchy to accomplish that. Where was your buddy? Why did you come home early?

Walter-

I took "The second had the same result" to mean he did try his octo and it was also leaking.

I understood the "second" as his "octo". These are often called "safe seconds" by some agencies. The post was maybe a little too concise to be clear... but that's the prerogative of the poster, I guess. It just didn't give the readers a clear understanding of the situation.

Was this your reg or a rental? This is a good illustration for redundancy... and your buddy is that when you don't have a pony, H-valve with two regs, etc. Problem with solo trips is not really "having a buddy".

If one is SOLO diving, you MUST have redundancy... or you're really insane.

Congrats on the 90 foot ascent. I'm sure you could at least get some air... and there are multiple procedures for breathing from a regulator that is malfunctioning... which one depends on what the problem is. Also a good illustration on why we should practice emergency ascents. If you are neutral at depth, you shouldn't have to add air to your bcd to go up... just go up a few feet and your bcd will have larger "displacement" of air volume.

ITB...

[Walter]

If you learn to and practice breathing from a flooded snorkel, a leaky regulator is a snap to handle.

[diverdown70]

Unless you dont have or use a snorkel

[nuroc]

ITB is right, I meant my octopus. It wasn't a trickle. It was a 90 foot assent, not 90 feet per minute. It was also my 8th dive overall and the first in over a year. I didn't have a designated buddy, we were put in two groups. I came home a day early because I had had enough of cozumel and the crap equipment they rent to you; too bad I didn't have my own bc. The amateur divemasters onboard thought it was a faulty o-ring.

I was also a little ticked to start because I had booked my trip through the moderator of this webiste. I had no transfers, as promised. I wouldn't recommend Hotel Cozumel for a solo diver. Last time I book a trip through an amateur travel site.

Thanks for the concern and feedback. I'd like to find out the possibilities of what went wrong with the equipment. One more thing, the octopus had the same result as the regulator when I pulled it....no trickle...a lot of water coming in. And I purged, a lot.

[Walter]

I'm not an expert on equipment, I'm sure some others will be able to shed more light on what happened.

The most common cause of a wet breathing reg is a hole in the mouth piece, usually a small split near the cable tie. That usually results in a trickle, not a flood. A missing or torn exhaust diaphragm can give you a flood, but I wouldn't expect the same problem with the octo, it's not nearly as common as a split mouth piece. It sounds like there might have been a problem with the first stage since both second stages were effected, but I don't have the expertise to know what could have caused this. I'll see if I can find out what could have caused the problem.

Always dive with a designated buddy. Diving in a group without a designated buddy is, as you so painfully discovered, solo diving. I'm glad you are ok.

Unless you dont have or use a snorkel

It doesn't matter if you have a snorkel or not, you were required to learn to use a snorkel to get certified. Admittedly, most classes don't require you to use it really well and as far as I'm aware only NAUI requires you to learn to breathe through a flooded snorkel. It is, however, a skill every diver should master. I stole the NAUI skill and added it to the requirements of the classes I teach.

[drdiver]

Like you, Walter, I'm puzzled by the mechanics of this accident. I've had a split diaphragm that breached wetter and wetter the deeper I got, but, of course, I could still breath off my second. The only way that I can see this happening would be on a balanced first stage if the piston stem collapsed sealing off the air from the cylinder and simultaneously allowed water to come in from the ambient pressure port. That really doesn't seem possible to me, though, so I'm at a loss. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can illuminate us.

[Dennis]

This sounds like a 1st stage failure, since both of the second stage regulators were breathing wet. Although I would have to know what kind of regulator it was to look for the failure mechanism. In my very limited experience, I believe that normally, if a first stage fails, you get either no air or two free flowing second stages. This kind of failure escapes me and I am not the most experienced regulator repair guy out there by any means. If the first stage was a piston regulator, I think that if the piston seat falls out or gets a hole in it, you can get water through to the second stage. I'm not sure about the failure mechanism for a diapraghm first stage, but it could be similar.

Of course, it could still be two failed mouth pieces. Unusual, but possible. If the gear they rent in Coz is that bad, all of the mouth pieces could be very bad as well.

I would like to hear from our overhaul and repair expert.

[intotheblue]

Of course, it could still be two failed mouth pieces.  Unusual, but possible.  If the gear they rent in Coz is that bad, all of the mouth pieces could be very bad as well.

I always recommended to my students that they never leave to chance the equipment they might get for rental in a location where gear goes out and comes back in faster than it can be checked. Ideally, you should rent gear from a "reputable" source... better yet, own and have your gear regularly serviced. When you rent or pick up your gear from service, it should be "your responsibility" to check it for proper function. I can't tell you how many people came to pick up their gear on their way to pack for the next day's flight, and only even checked their gear "dry" when I insisted they do it on a shop tank. Ideally, you should get your gear back in time to do a dive with it, even if in your pool, to check it out. You can tell I'm not a big proponent of "renting gear" (other than tanks and weights, that is...)

The statement that a regulator first stage failure will result in a free flow is only partially correct. That is not the only type of failure you can have. Most regs are "downstream" valves and most failures that would allow an increase of air pressure to the intermediate side will allow the valve to open and let it "bleed" off, causing a freeflow to the 2nds. Other failures can cause other problems, and not all regs are "downstream" valve regs. Without knowing more about the gear, only speculation can be made.

The original poster has shown us the problem with the type of diving done on many dive boats. You need to have a designated buddy as Walter said. Remember, as I said earlier in the thread, that is the redundancy for your gear failures. Your octopus is not for your own gear failures (even though it may infrequently allow you to circumvent a simple problem), it is redundancy for your buddy's gear failures and out of air emergencies, and vice versa. Same ocean buddy diving and "group" diving are types of "SOLO" diving and is decidedly more dangerous... and takes special equipment and training if it is going to be done. If you have no buddy, tell the divemaster and dive with him as your buddy... don't be bashful. Inexperienced divers should definitely NOT be "solo" divers of any kind. It's even controversial for very experienced people.

Sorry you had such a "cluster" of problems... very unfortunate.

ITB...

[drdiver]

Well said ITB!