49 replies to this topic

[Walter]

Scott,

I never said SSI doesn't issue Advanced cards. I said they don't actually have an advanced course. You qualify for the SSI Advanced card by taking specialty courses and completing 25 dives.

[leaudaustin]

I see I can clarify some of the SSI details, just in a FYI. (I took a few liberties re-arranging Walter's comments for response.)

To obtain an SSI Advanced rating, you need to complete X number of SSI specialty courses and have logged a minimum of 25 dives.

Almost: 4 specialty courses and at least 24 dives.

If memory serves, you must have the Rescue certification.  This is similar to PADI's Master Diver rating, which also has no course, but does require 50 dives instead of 25.

Nope, not for the "Advanced Open Water Diver" rating. The 4 specialty course + Stress & Rescue specialty + 50 dives make one eligible for the "Master Diver" con-ed rating.

SSI doesn't actually have an Advanced course, PADI does. Once you've completed the [SSI] requirements, you can the apply for the Advanced card. 

Yes. But, SSI shops, such as one I've been involved with, can make an "Advanced" course by bundling four specialties together. Mine will most likely include Night/Limited Visibility, Deep Diving, Navigation, and one other that I'm not sure about yet. Most likely something like "Computers" or "Boat diving" which are probably pretty light-weight courses, at least for me since most of my fun diving so far as been ocean boat diving--no doubt there's more to learn and practice, but the course will most likely assume nothing; then again, maybe I'll be happily surprised).

[drbill]

Gee whiz, after at least 2,000 dives and many "specialties" (mostly self-taught, I'm no Master Diver... just a Bumbling Biologist! It's a certification only my own agency (Dive Dry with Dr. Bill, of course) offers.

[chinacat46]

PADI's Master Diver program though is a bit misleading. You need to be a rescue diver and have 5 PADI specialties plus 50 dives. However the 5 specialties may not require any diving. For example you could have the equipment specialty, the project AWARE specialty, and a few other distinctive specialties which require no diving. I for one think it should be changed so that they require at least 3 of the specialties to have some diving involved. The way it is now you really only need 50 dives and the rescue cert and then sit thru 5 non-diving specialties and you would be qualified to be a Master Diver. It might be nice to have those 5 non-diving specialties but I doubt they have really helped improve your diving much. I've heard rumors that PADI is going to add some more requirements to there Master Diver program I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Walter]

Chuck, a few years ago, PADI added the 50 dives to the Master Diver Program. Prior to that, one could have become a Master Diver with surprisingly few dives. This was a positive change PADI made.

Bundling 4 specialties does not make a course.

[Diverbrian]

Looking at the PADI description on it's website, it looks like it is similar but, at a minimum, requires fewer dives.

I haven't read the website description, but I have read the standards. They are nothing alike.

SSI doesn't actually have an Advanced course, PADI does. To obtain an SSI Advanced rating, you need to complete X number of SSI specialty courses and have logged a minimum of 25 dives. If memory serves, you must have the Rescue certification. Once you've completed the requirements, you can the apply for the Advanced card. This is similar to PADI's Master Diver rating, which also has no course, but does require 50 dives instead of 25.

PADI's AOW requires no specialty courses, but does require 5 dives. There must be one deep dive and (I'm working from memory here, so I could be off on exact details) one navigation dive as well as 3 additional dives picked from a list that includes, night, low visibility and others that do not come to mind. They have recently started calling these 5 required dives "specialty dives," probably because they can count toward specialty certifications in those areas should the student want to go that route. While it is a course, the academics are a bare minimum.

Other agencies also have Advanced and Master Diver courses, some have more than one.

NAUI's Advanced course is similar to PADI's but requires 6 dives instead of 5 and includes more academics.

YMCA actually has 2 different Advanced courses. Their AOW is virtually identical to PADI's while their Silver Advanced requires in depth academics and 10 dives. I consider the Silver Advanced course the only widely available course that is truly advanced.

LA County has what is probably the best advanced class anywhere in their Advanced Diver Program. Anyone living in southern California should seriously consider taking the Advanced Diver Program.

NAUI's Master Diver Course and YMCA's Gold Star Master Diver Course are both excellent courses for those not interested in becoming professionals, but are interested in learning more about diving. They include instructor level academics. I don't have either set of standards in front of me, so I'm not going into detail of the requirements.

Actually, the Master Diver card is the one that requires a Stress and Rescue rating. Other than that you have pretty well nailed down an SSI AOW card card. It awarded on the completion of four specialities and 24 dives. The only difference between an SSI Master Diver and an AOW is that the Master Diver requires 50 logged dives and five specialities (one of which has to be Stress and Rescue).

[David Evans]

It's a certification only my own agency (Dive Dry with Dr. Bill, of course) offers.

I've also created my own agency - complete with cards and everything. I've issued 4 of them. The cards certify me to dive with the other three card-holders, and them to dive with me.

(seriously)

-d

[Diverbrian]

Rescue is the hardest class you will ever love.
Sounds strange but it was the class that proved to me that I had major dive skills. Also the class that convinced me that I would dive for the rest of my life.

You thought AOW was tough. Get ready, Rescue is even tougher. The suiting up from shore after watching someone yell for help and "go down". The surface swim so your assistant on shore can quide you to the desent point of the "victim". The search and recovery. The getting this guy back to shore, while doing assisted breathing. (and my favorite part) getting your 6' tall "victim" out of the water and onto the shore so you can do CPR. Whew... tiring..

THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DID ALL OF THE ABOVE AND DID IT WELL...

Get out there and get your Rescue Cert. It will be the best thing you ever did. Lots of hard work but worth it all.

I learned so much about ME and MY skills. I walked away a much better, more confident diver.

And yes a gal who is only 5'1" can carry a 6' tall guy out of the water and onto the shore. I am still angry with my instructor for that pairing. He did promise me next time I take my Rescue cert. I can get a shorter buddy.

I had the other kind of "fun" victim. He was a competitive swimmer out to drown me in the underwater panic drill. LOL

Have fun with your Rescue course.

[leaudaustin]

Bundling 4 specialties does not make a course.

Bundling four specialty courses (not specialty "dives," but what SSI refers to as "courses"; now, if SSI is incorrect in labeling courses, "courses," I'll let others debate) together so that you take them all, doesn't make the bundling not-a-course at all though either. And at the end of that (and with the appropriate number of logged dives), one will get an "Advanced Open Water Diver" con-ed rating. So, it seems the shop is being reasonable in their labeling given the nature of the associated agencies requirements.

Anyway, whatever it is, the practicality of AOW designation by an agency seem to be:
* the instruction offered for the cert label, whatever or however much it is, is a useful educational start, not a end, and one might learn a lot
* the card that says "Advanced" may be necessary for taking certain moderate-skill dives at PADI dive destinations.

Like Dr. Bill mentions, there's no reason any of us need to be under any illusions that "Advanced" designation means much in the literal sense, especially to one's own standards. There's no reason we need to substitute any agency's standards for our own more rigorous standards. It's not pretentious to get the rating that dive trips want in order to do the dives for which you are fit, whatever it's called.

[cmt489]

Congratulations Mishelle!! I knew you would do just fine!!

[Scott]

  Congradulations Mishelle, now all we need is for Annasea to get off the computer for awhile and get her OW 

Say it ain't so?! You aren't certified Annasea?

Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS, Mishelle! Now you can get to the fun stuff!!!

Like others said earlier, RESCUE is the BEST class ever!

Edited by Scott, 02 August 2005 - 05:45 PM.

[drdiver]

Say it ain't so?! You aren't certified Annasea?

The lass is takin' her time. Let her be. She's doin' her swimmin' and soon she'll be joinin' us in Davy Jones' Locker.

We're all waiting for that day--on that day, the dolphins will dance, the fishes will swim and the whales will all spout in unison--with Annasea under the waves!!!!

[Scott]

Say it ain't so?! You aren't certified Annasea?

The lass is takin' her time. Let her be. She's doin' her swimmin' and soon she'll be joinin' us in Davy Jones' Locker.

We're all waiting for that day--on that day, the dolphins will dance, the fishes will swim and the whales will all spout in unison--with Annasea under the waves!!!!

Nice, but don't forget that the Angelfish will meet their match!

[TheSassyRabbit]

Looking at the PADI description on it's website, it looks like it is similar but, at a minimum, requires fewer dives.

I haven't read the website description, but I have read the standards. They are nothing alike.

SSI doesn't actually have an Advanced course, PADI does. To obtain an SSI Advanced rating, you need to complete X number of SSI specialty courses and have logged a minimum of 25 dives. If memory serves, you must have the Rescue certification. Once you've completed the requirements, you can the apply for the Advanced card. This is similar to PADI's Master Diver rating, which also has no course, but does require 50 dives instead of 25.

PADI's AOW requires no specialty courses, but does require 5 dives. There must be one deep dive and (I'm working from memory here, so I could be off on exact details) one navigation dive as well as 3 additional dives picked from a list that includes, night, low visibility and others that do not come to mind. They have recently started calling these 5 required dives "specialty dives," probably because they can count toward specialty certifications in those areas should the student want to go that route. While it is a course, the academics are a bare minimum.

Other agencies also have Advanced and Master Diver courses, some have more than one.

NAUI's Advanced course is similar to PADI's but requires 6 dives instead of 5 and includes more academics.

YMCA actually has 2 different Advanced courses. Their AOW is virtually identical to PADI's while their Silver Advanced requires in depth academics and 10 dives. I consider the Silver Advanced course the only widely available course that is truly advanced.

LA County has what is probably the best advanced class anywhere in their Advanced Diver Program. Anyone living in southern California should seriously consider taking the Advanced Diver Program.

NAUI's Master Diver Course and YMCA's Gold Star Master Diver Course are both excellent courses for those not interested in becoming professionals, but are interested in learning more about diving. They include instructor level academics. I don't have either set of standards in front of me, so I'm not going into detail of the requirements.

Another walk on the dark side. Walter, you're getting so predictable in these conversations. I love you more and more every day

[annasea]

Say it ain't so?! You aren't certified Annasea?

The lass is takin' her time. Let her be. She's doin' her swimmin' and soon she'll be joinin' us in Davy Jones' Locker.

We're all waiting for that day--on that day, the dolphins will dance, the fishes will swim and the whales will all spout in unison--with Annasea under the waves!!!!

Dennis!

(Your support and patience, in particular, is most appreciated!)