26 replies to this topic

[ScubaHawk]

It took me years of putting off my OW cert - because I didn't have the time, or I didn't have the money. I kick myself now - knowing what I've been missing. What finally had me take the plunge - was a friend of mine pointing our that I could take 4 classes over a couple of weeks and be done. The price was right and I found the time. Had it been more classes, more weeks or more money I probably wouldn't have done it.
I waited a few weeks and about 20 dives before it got my AOW. I'm glad I didn't do it right after my OW as a few did. I learned more because I knew what to look for. rescue dive came a little over a month later. I'm extra glad it wasn't included with OW. If I hadn't had 50+ dives, I wouldn't have understood the why's and hows involved in everything I was learning. There is no way I could have incorporated all the information in those three certs in one large class block. The mind needs time to adjust and digest.
I'm sure the process needs some fine tuning - but I agree with the basic form. Teach the bare basics - give them time to try it out - teach them some more - give it time and trial to sink in - teach more complicated skills etc . . .

[ScubaDadMiami]

Teach the bare basics - give them time to try it out - teach them some more - give it time and trial to sink in - teach more complicated skills etc . . .

What happens if a diver that only has "the basics" is faced with an emergency that requires the skills he or she has not yet learned, i. e., surfacing an unconscious diver, performing rescue breathing while towing the diver, and perhaps even extracating the diver from the water?

[Bubble2Bubble]

Even if you cant afford to take a

Divers Rescue Class

You really cant afford not to for the other Divers sake.

Emergency First Responce/ CPR+Infant and ADU.

For Land or Sea its a Must Do.


B2B

Edited by Bubble2Bubble, 25 September 2005 - 09:50 PM.

[ScubaHawk]

Teach the bare basics - give them time to try it out - teach them some more - give it time and trial to sink in - teach more complicated skills etc . . .

What happens if a diver that only has "the basics" is faced with an emergency that requires the skills he or she has not yet learned, i. e., surfacing an unconscious diver, performing rescue breathing while towing the diver, and perhaps even extracating the diver from the water?

The "what if" game can be played ad absurdum . What if the boat breaks down - shouldn't marine engine repair be taught with open water? How about survival skills? Marine navigation etc . . . There is alway's a chance that someone (no matter what level) will be faced with a situtation they have no training in. I personally don't think that two new OW divers should be out on their own and someone with more experience should plan better.


How much information will a student retain if it's done all at once. If they don't have some skills and confidence in the water how much of the rescue dive portion will they retain? Are they expected to surface a diver and perform the correct rescue skills and rescue breaths on their first dives out of class? I think everyone should take rescue diving, as soon as they are ready. I would rather the student be more comfortable in the water before we start stacking more skills on them.

[casematic]

I made a personal decision a long time ago that I would not teach resort courses. I just don't want to be involved with them at all.

SALUTE..... Definitely admire your position (too bad more people aren't willing to take a stand for what they think) . . . and if I ever get to go on a trip that you are on, I'd enjoy picking you brain a bit.

KC

[annasea]

Teach the bare basics - give them time to try it out - teach them some more - give it time and trial to sink in - teach more complicated skills etc . . .

What happens if a diver that only has "the basics" is faced with an emergency that requires the skills he or she has not yet learned, i. e., surfacing an unconscious diver, performing rescue breathing while towing the diver, and perhaps even extracating the diver from the water?

The "what if" game can be played ad absurdum . What if the boat breaks down - shouldn't marine engine repair be taught with open water? How about survival skills? Marine navigation etc . . . There is alway's a chance that someone (no matter what level) will be faced with a situtation they have no training in. I personally don't think that two new OW divers should be out on their own and someone with more experience should plan better.

How much information will a student retain if it's done all at once. If they don't have some skills and confidence in the water how much of the rescue dive portion will they retain? Are they expected to surface a diver and perform the correct rescue skills and rescue breaths on their first dives out of class? I think everyone should take rescue diving, as soon as they are ready. I would rather the student be more comfortable in the water before we start stacking more skills on them.

As the board's token diver-to-be, I'd like to add in my thoughts, please.

While I understand both Henry's and Howard's thinking, I agree with Henry. Despite having less than desirable instruction, I still feel that I learned a lot in my confined dives and would prefer to practice them before acquiring more skills. (Unfortunately, there wasn't much pool time to practice.)

I wouldn't want to dive with another newbie, or go to depths beyond what I'll be certified for. I'd much rather dive with those that are more experienced, and hopefully, in addition to learning from my own experience as I dive, I'll learn from my dive buddies' experiences as well.

As Terri touched on in another thread, and as Henry mentioned here as well, some people may not have pursued their interest in scuba diving had it not been for the less indepth course format. There may be those that are *born to dive*, but for others, a basic course is a blessing. It enables us to try scuba diving and see whether it's for us or not. If so, we can pursue more advanced, specialized courses when we're ready.

It's similar to renting equipment rather than buying. How many people would take up scuba diving if they had to run out and buy all the necessary equipment in one shot? Not many, I believe.

Another analogy I'd like to share is one between diving and driving. You can be trained to a T in a classroom setting, but frequently situations arise on the road that you have not specifically been trained for. Good driving comes with experience, as I'm guessing diving does as well.



But what do I know? I'm still technically a *non-diver* anyway.

Edited by annasea, 25 September 2005 - 05:50 PM.

[drbill]

You mean it isn't taught in open water by some? Oh my.

[dustbowl diver]

While I am certainly not a professional diver, I am of the belief that exposure or certain elements of Rescue should be presented if they aren't already. As mentioned in another thread, I took a 19 year hiatus. The club that offered OW classes had lots of classroom time, so there was an opportunity to present certain elements.
What I do know, when I took my refresher, it was hit the basics and into the water!!

[hnladue]

I have taken EFR and Rescue. Personnally, I think they should be longer. EFR could talk more about first aid and some different senarios. I was lucky in that it was taught by a paramedic! As for rescue, only 5 dives. I would have liked 10 dives with more practice in open water with different wave types and such. I was a hard class, but I think would have been better if we drilled on things more.

[Walter]

As others (Howard & Peter) have pointed out, some agencies do include rescue skills in the OW course. BSAC, NAUI & YMCA are some of those that do. This is a good thing.

Folks are raising interesting points.

But how many people would stick with something that long? I think that divers are given some choices right now...and they usually choose price or timing issues. It's only those of us who are now certified that realize how much we don't know and wish we could of had more training. However how many would have actually stuck with a class that long? I know I would not have however I have certainly gone back for more training at every opportunity that I can now.

If all OW courses took a month to complete, more people would be willing to take them. It's when you have the weekend option (and people telling you there's no difference) that you'll object to the longer course. Once you know better, you wish you would've taken that route. If we teach them better from the begining, it will stop being an issue.

when we all focus on how to become a better diver rather than 'who's agency is better', the diver can make a more informed decision

It might be even more helpful if people would stop spreading the lie that all agencies are the same. People can't make informed decisions without the facts. When you look at what each agency requires, you have important information that helps you have an informed decision. One excellent tool for making an informed decision is the section in the SCUBA diving FAQ's about how to find an excellent OW class.

We have moved into an instant gratification age, and anyone who tries to buck that trend will simply fail.

You just have to target a smaller portion of the population. There are those who prefer quality.

How much information will a student retain if it's done all at once.

That depends on several factors. Are they rushed through or are they allowed to master and practice skills before moving on to the next set.

If they don't have some skills and confidence in the water how much of the rescue dive portion will they retain?

Sounds like an argument for more skills, a higher level of mastery of those skills and more practice time rather than an argument not to teach rescue.

I would rather the student be more comfortable in the water before we start stacking more skills on them.

More skills in OW and more practice of those skills is what creates comfort in the water. I would rather the student be more comfortable in the water before we certify them.

While I understand both Henry's and Howard's thinking, I agree with Henry. Despite having less than desirable instruction, I still feel that I learned a lot in my confined dives and would prefer to practice them before acquiring more skills. (Unfortunately, there wasn't much pool time to practice.)

If you'd had time to practice your skills and to actually master them (mastery of skills is required by standards) this would also satisify your desire to practice them before having to learn additional skills.

[dustbowl diver]

Walter,

Excellant points once again!!!