123 replies to this topic

[annasea]

Come to the Dark Side, Caetllonn."

Well, I have to say the info provided makes it extremely tempting. I will confer with my instructor-to-be on this and report back.

BTW, has anyone heard of this organization?

[Capn Jack]

I was warned about them -

You've heard the scuba legend about Barracuda and shiny jewelry - there is another one about a one-legged guy and a harpoon looking for the great white whale - which is what would happen if I joined this crowd!!! YIKES!!!

[annasea]

I must say it looks very intriguing ... very liberating!

[PerroneFord]

I must say it looks very intriguing ... very liberating!

You ever been to Florida? Let me give you my address...

[BeachBunny]

BTW, has anyone heard of this organization?

1st....I would worry about chafing from my BC....

More importantly I am sure you have heard that term "snow blindness"....that is what would happen to someone who was brave enough to catch a glimpse of my ever so pasty derriere before I succumbed to the wretched 3rd degree burns!!!!

It ain't easy being pasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ScubaDadMiami]

BTW, has anyone heard of this organization?

"I was in the pool! I was in the pool! . . . There was shrinkage." George Costanza.

The only other thing I have to say can be said in two words: "Sea lice." Thanks, I'll stick to diving in my dry suit.

Back to the subject, you already heard what I had to say about the type of BC device. I stand by my previous statements to you. Don't learn the hard and expensive way.

[Trimix2dive]

I must say it looks very intriguing ... very liberating!

maybe but its hell on ice divers

[peterbj7]

BTW, has anyone heard of this organization?

We had a group of them here in Belize some time ago, though not with my operation. The boat captain was quite surprised when he saw what they intended wearing on the boat and underwater - he had had no warning. He tells me it wasn't a pretty sight!

[TekDiveGirl]

I'm not going to get into the PADI rant today.  No point in it.  However, most students tend to learn in jackets because that is what is in the rental fleet of most dive shops.  This is PADI or otherwise.

As for students struggling with BP/W configs on the surface, I call BS.  I had 6 dives under my belt when I got my BP/W and didn't have any trouble at all.  Only skill required was "lean back".

I also don't know what DIR-IT has to do with backplates and wings.  Because BP/W's were around long before DIR was even a thought in anyone's mind.

PerroneFord-

Please note I said SOME new divers have a hard time getting themselves vertical in the water with a back inflate system. I am not making this up. SOME new divers are very uncomfortable with their face being pushed toward the water. They find it stressful, feelike they are being held facedown in the water, begin to fight the BC, and..well... we know all about task loading.

I have no doubt you have the strength to easily position yourself.

For some this is simply not the case.

Thats all I was saying.

Ok -- so what you are really saying is that instead of taking a little extra time with these divers you instead work with the LCD (lowest common demoninator) theory. Downgrade the gear instead of bringing the student up to par. If they started out in the pool with the gear they would know no different and the task loading would be lower. It is only if they started with one piece of gear and switched mid-class that it would be more difficult.

You yourself said the back-inflate was superior for underwater even if you have your own personal bias against using the bp/w.

I don't understand training in one piece of gear then steering them to another piece of gear when it is time to buy.

Ok -- wtf is DIR-IT?

And really get over your bp/w = DIR --- the bp was around long before George and his merry men started the whole thing. To dive a bp does not make one dir -- heck my hot pink bp can't possibly be dir can it?

[TekDiveGirl]

heck my hot pink bp can't possibly be dir can it?

Now I'm going to have to come to California sometime, if only to get a gander at that bp in action.

It must truly be a sight to behold.

--but then again, so am I!!!

Platypusman

Well you can see a bit of it here --



and better here --

[Diverbrian]

I'm not going to get into the PADI rant today.  No point in it.  However, most students tend to learn in jackets because that is what is in the rental fleet of most dive shops.  This is PADI or otherwise.

As for students struggling with BP/W configs on the surface, I call BS.  I had 6 dives under my belt when I got my BP/W and didn't have any trouble at all.  Only skill required was "lean back".

I also don't know what DIR-IT has to do with backplates and wings.  Because BP/W's were around long before DIR was even a thought in anyone's mind.

PerroneFord-

Please note I said SOME new divers have a hard time getting themselves vertical in the water with a back inflate system. I am not making this up. SOME new divers are very uncomfortable with their face being pushed toward the water. They find it stressful, feelike they are being held facedown in the water, begin to fight the BC, and..well... we know all about task loading.

I have no doubt you have the strength to easily position yourself.

For some this is simply not the case.

Thats all I was saying.

Ok -- so what you are really saying is that instead of taking a little extra time with these divers you instead work with the LCD (lowest common demoninator) theory. Downgrade the gear instead of bringing the student up to par. If they started out in the pool with the gear they would know no different and the task loading would be lower. It is only if they started with one piece of gear and switched mid-class that it would be more difficult.

You yourself said the back-inflate was superior for underwater even if you have your own personal bias against using the bp/w.

I don't understand training in one piece of gear then steering them to another piece of gear when it is time to buy.

Ok -- wtf is DIR-IT?

And really get over your bp/w = DIR --- the bp was around long before George and his merry men started the whole thing. To dive a bp does not make one dir -- heck my hot pink bp can't possibly be dir can it?

I see the issues that he refers to. OW classes do spend a fair amount of time near on the surface listening to directions. Just as likely, we put the students in gear that they are likely to be renting if they are using their own.

Our shop used to train everyone in the "top of the line" gear. The problem was for the people that didn't buy. They would go to the Caribbean and get some of the more poorly designed stuff for rentals. Then, they would come back and ask us why we didn't train them for worst case. So, we started to train them in typical rental gear if they weren't buying gear.

BP/W's do cause issues with staff time involved in fitting them precisely. It takes time to fit one properly. If you fit someone and they choose to buy online (as has been known to happen), you are out the staff member's time for no sale.

As well, most of the manufacturers do not allow the shops the same profit margin and they have to keep their doors open somehow. So they sell the equipment from most of the mainstream manufacturers.

I won't slam the vest BC's. I used to dive a Seaquest ProQD+ and still dive one for the rare occasions that I work with classes. It fit me well and I liked it. I just liked the BP/W better over time. As well, my dive buddy dives a Zeagle Ranger. She loves it and it works for her. That is the end of that story.

In an ideal world, all OW instructors and students would have the time to demonstrate the differences between the different types of gear. The world isn't ideal. Some instructors do have that kind of time and are able to charge accordingly. Likewise, some instructors have tried doing that and left teaching in frustration.

But, in the real world, there had better be enough time to allow for proper weighting and buoyancy control so that a student has a feeling that they can handle just being underwater without the slightest extra thing (like an airshare) being task loading. If this isn't happening as a minimum, someone needs to find another class or instructor. This is regardless of what gear the class is being taught in.

BTW, even though I already use a BP/W, I am not DIR myself. I am simply a deep wreck diver using the gear that works best for me. I have even been proudly called a stroke by Trace.

[BabyDuck]

i started with a back inflate bc, a mares journey. i thought i liked it until i saw some pictures of me in it underwater.

there were easily three inches between my shoulders and the shoulder straps when it was tightened down all the way.

so i went to the dark side with about 20 dives on the journey. now i have a steel plate, an aluminum one with my screenname glass bead etched on it, and am envious of kimber's pink one...

i went from having 16lbs in the bc to having 5 on the bp/w, since it takes lead to sink the padding (plus the plate equals 11 total pounds).

just my personal journey. not harder to learn, more comfortable on the surface since it isn't as heavy, feels like an extension of *me*!