17 replies to this topic

[Latitude Adjustment]

St. Maarten accident report

I was the captain of the boat that recovered her body today. My boat was on the dive site next to the one that lost the diver.
We were involved in a surface search for some time as we were informed that the diver was lost on the
surface with her BCD inflated. The search went on for quite a long time and to no avail. The dive operation that lost the diver and I decided to do a bottom search at the dive site where she was lost.
The dive operator put 3 divers in the water and I put in my diver and in 10 minutes they had found the
diver at 60 feet, mask on, regulator out of her mouth and 0 PSI in her tank.
She had been down 2 plus hours. They brought her to the surface and my diver and I lifted her onto our platform and into the boat. She had no pulse and not surprisingly, not breathing. We immediately started CPR and administered O2. I ran the boat into the cruise port and to the ship she was from. The cruise medical staff removed the body.

FYI She had 10 dives, was overweight and dove with a 2-3 mil full suit.
SHE HAD 30 LBS IN HER INTEGRATED BCD! She apparently missed the tag line after surfacing, was told to inflate her BCD and relax while the other divers were boarded but the boat lost sight of her shortly and
thought she had drifted out of sight but apparently she sank soon after surfacing. The divemaster had
told her she was too heavy with 30 lbs but she insisted. She removed 6 lbs from her BCD but upon examination of her gear, the 6 lbs were found in her BCD pockets, not in her weight compartments. She
failed to dump her integrated weight at the surface and that probably caused her death.

All in all it was a very sad situation to be sure.

Captain Bob Cass
Dive Adventures, St. Maarten

[normblitch]

I read this earlier this AM on the Diving Accidents Forum...

I'm sure her OWI had drilled her on this, but still...it is sad...

Wondering how many Boat Dives she had prior...

Norm

St. Maarten accident report

I was the captain of the boat that recovered her body today. My boat was on the dive site next to the one that lost the diver.
We were involved in a surface search for some time as we were informed that the diver was lost on the
surface with her BCD inflated. The search went on for quite a long time and to no avail. The dive operation that lost the diver and I decided to do a bottom search at the dive site where she was lost.
The dive operator put 3 divers in the water and I put in my diver and in 10 minutes they had found the
diver at 60 feet, mask on, regulator out of her mouth and 0 PSI in her tank.
She had been down 2 plus hours. They brought her to the surface and my diver and I lifted her onto our platform and into the boat. She had no pulse and not surprisingly, not breathing. We immediately started CPR and administered O2. I ran the boat into the cruise port and to the ship she was from. The cruise medical staff removed the body.

FYI She had 10 dives, was overweight and dove with a 2-3 mil full suit.
SHE HAD 30 LBS IN HER INTEGRATED BCD! She apparently missed the tag line after surfacing, was told to inflate her BCD and relax while the other divers were boarded but the boat lost sight of her shortly and
thought she had drifted out of sight but apparently she sank soon after surfacing. The divemaster had
told her she was too heavy with 30 lbs but she insisted. She removed 6 lbs from her BCD but upon examination of her gear, the 6 lbs were found in her BCD pockets, not in her weight compartments. She
failed to dump her integrated weight at the surface and that probably caused her death.

All in all it was a very sad situation to be sure.

Captain Bob Cass
Dive Adventures, St. Maarten

[PerroneFord]

As a newbie diver, I've been in a spot.

It was my first ever doubles dive outside a pool. I had on an unfamiliar wing and no weights. I was in a freshwater spring, about 70ft to the bottom. I had my instructor with me, and a newish buddy. We swam out a bit in a relaxed manner, but my breathing was a bit heavy from the long surface walk, my nervousness being at a new site, and other factors.

Just after beginning the descent, as my wetsuit compressed, I went to the inflator and got NOTHING! Now, and experienced diver would have done an oral inflate. I did not. My heart rate elevated, my breathing got more shallow and faster, and I went to my buddy for help. He wasn't good enough to help me in mid-water, so my instructor came over, guided me to a rock ledge and we fixed the problem. (I later had this same issue at another site with the same gear).

As it turned out, the inflator button was on the opposite side of the hose than the wing I was used to. So instead of hitting inflate, I had been fumbling and hitting the purge. In one instance I had entered the water with the inflator hose not connected.

The fact is, unless you practice your pre-dive, your safety drills, and so forth, simple scenarios turn into major problems in short order. One of the reasons I don't like integrated weights is because it is nearly impossible to practice dropping weights outside the pool environment. You can take a weightbelt off in the water and put it back, but if you drop your integrated soft weights, you're going to have real work to do getting them back.

Starting a dive with a 3mm suit, and THIRTY POUNDS, should be an indication that this diver had NO BUSINESS being out in the ocean on her own. Ten pounds was probably too much. The DM should have never let her in the water. Easy to say now.

One of the FIRST things I noted upon my return to diving, was how often being overweight kills, or causes near-death experience. I made it my business to shed weight right from the start. I went from 18-12 in week 1. And down to 6 before I ever left the pool. Somewhere along the line, her OWI put 30 pounds on this woman in salt water for her to think she needed it. This kind of foolishness won't stop until OWI stop overweighting people in class and giving new divers a false sense of their weighting requirements.

It's a tragedy.

[Latitude Adjustment]

Perrone, I think some of the springs in your area have trainning platforms where you can practice dropping weights and still be able to find them, I took my daughter to Jules Lagoon in Key Largo on their platform and had her practice dumping from her intergrated BC.
First thing she learned was you need to reach across your body and pull the opposite side release because if she tried pulling say the left side release with the left hand she didn't have the strength to over come the weight pockets friction and velcro.

[drbill]

The one time dropping my weights might have been a good idea (a CESA from 70 ft with no air), I didn't. Since ALL my weight is on my belt, dropping it would have (1) caused me to shoot up to the surface and (2) taken time and energy that was better spent focusiong on my rise to the surface. Had I ditchable and non-ditchable weight, I would probabaly have ditched the ditchable.

I see so many over-weight and over-weighted folks out here at our dive park (it is a fave site for newly certified divers). Some of the accidents arise from folks dropping all their weight and popping to the surface. I think having a combination of ditchable and non-ditchable weights makes a lot of sense.

In this particular incident, the diver was already at the surface. Had she been able to ditch her weights, she probably would have been fine. However, I have also noticed that some over-weight (and out-of-shape) new divers have trouble actually ditching their weights due to body mass and equipment.

[Mitch0129]

I think incidents like this happen because divers do not realize they have weights on. I have seen it many times that a diver will get out of the water, get out of their system, then walk around for 5-10 minutes before realizing they still are weighing their weight belt. Myself, the weight belt is one of the first things I remove at the end of a dive.

I would wonder where was her buddy and/or the DM through this. It appears she did not have very much diving experience, nothing is said about whether anyone was around her, and there is no indication whether or not she inflated her BC. If there had been an experienced dive buddy or DM around, they might have had the presence of mind to inflate her BC and/or at least ditch some of the weight.

[Capn Jack]

Too many times people are not aware of what to do, or are too focused on something else to take an action that is obvious to those of use with the leisure of reading about someone else's demise.

Damn shame to lose a life, apparently needlessly, although there may have been other factors at work we're not aware of yet.

Personal experience - "train like you will fight" - I'm alive today because of that, several times over.

I agree with PerroneFord about not having the opportunity to drop your weights, but it's not the lack of skill that kills, it's the lack of a decision. Divers are found dead with their weights on, or in their rig, not with the belt tangled around their fins or the integrated pouch half-out.

Take the opportunity to review "What if" in your head as you're planning your dive trip, as you're going through the labor of lugging your gear onboard or across the beach. We have lots of idle hours in the sport, put them to good use.

Some of the "what if" scenarios are a little depressing, but if you don't have a plan, and have stepped through the plan many times in your head - I can almost guarantee you will not execute under stress.

Practice your skills. Bored at the safety stop? Pick a skill, brief your buddy ahead of time, and use the time to your advantage.

Let's learn from this tragedy.

Edited by Capn Jack, 22 December 2005 - 05:03 PM.

[Latitude Adjustment]

This is one reason I need a travel BP/W, on tropical dives with a steel tank and wearing a 3 mil suit I have no ditchable weight, it's all in my Stainless Steel Back Plate.

[Capn Jack]

This is one reason I need a travel BP/W, on tropical dives with a steel tank and wearing a 3 mil suit I have no ditchable weight, it's all in my Stainless Steel Back Plate.

Good thought. I'm kinda in the same boat (no pun intended) although I'm usually saved by the AL tank most rentals have. One of my dream dives is Bikini and they provide steel tanks... what would I do??

Should you dive "weightless"?? Sounds like another thread. My bet is there are opinions.

[WreckWench]

A couple of thoughts...

1. We don't know how much the girl weighed...she could of been quite out of shape and needed more lead. However 30 lbs should be too much for anyone.

2. Having been in several similar situations when I was a newer diver...I only recall one thing from both instances...the boat capt and dive masters yelling at me in a very stern voice...inflate your bc and drop your weight belt as both were gearing up to come and rescue me. I recall not really comprehending what they were saying...finally I know I put air in the bc...I did not drop the weights. I know that you don't really comprehend what is happening in an emergency like that. You tend to panic or barely react to commands given to you. And this assumes that someone is aware of your situation.

3. I agree that teaching not only bouyancy, but proper weighting, and how to properly ditch weights is very important and perhaps not stressed enough. I also know that divers should be told that the GOAL is to drop lead as they learn to dive better thereby giving them a reason to get more comfortable in the water, breathe more deeply, properly exhale etc. Fortunately my instructor told me that not only was the goal to drop lead that I would drop lead as I gained experience. Had he not done so I may never have realized that 'less is best' and consciencely worked towards achieving that goal.

[gcbryan]

This is an unfortunate accident. I think one reason that people are so reluctant to ditch weights is that since there are so few times when it's the appropriate thing to do while underwater that instructors spend more time making sure divers keep weights on rather than training for when to ditch them.

Of course on the surface it was the appropriate thing to do.

Edited by gcbryan, 22 December 2005 - 07:44 PM.

[TonyL]

I'm a little confused about dropping weights in general. In her case, if she started sinking with no air in her tank she should have dumped weight.

I just don't see the need to drop weights unless I know I'm about to go unconcious. If I am at 70 ft and neutrally buoyant and I swim up 10 ft, I will be positively buoyant and shoot up to the surface uncontrollably unless I dump air. I personally think that training should focus more on working through problems at depth (stop, think, act) rather than looking to drop weights or hurry to the surface.

I guess my question about her would be how long had it been since her OW cert. Did she complete her OW cert the week before or was she one of those divers that gets two dives per year while on a cruise and never sees the water in between?

[Capn Jack]

2. Having been in several similar situations when I was a newer diver...I only recall one thing from both instances...the boat capt and dive masters yelling at me in a very stern voice...inflate your bc and drop your weight belt as both were gearing up to come and rescue me.

A common phenomenon. Virtually every time I ask a diver with a problem to inflate their BC, I get a blank look. I usually have to repeat myself. People who don't dive often seem to not have the instinct. It gets worse when they are in trouble.

I just don't see the need to drop weights unless I know I'm about to go unconcious.

Absolutely - most of the time... but there are exceptions - mostly on the surface
- You're trying to keep another diver afloat - especially if they're unconscious - drop their weights, and probably yours too - you need to lose the mass and drag so you can swim better
- Your BC/Wing doesn't hold air
- You're too overloaded with some other problem on the surface to get the inflator going - weights are quicker

[ScubaDadMiami]

Being properly weighted in the first place goes a long way. At the beginning of the dive, a properly weighted diver will be somewhat negative, perhaps approximately six pounds or so using a single aluminum 80 tank. (If using double tanks with deco bottles, this could be as much as over 20 pounds. However, this clearly was not the case here. So, I will not address what one does in those circumstances).

Assuming a complete BC failure, even if it were not possible to ditch enough weight to become neutral or slightly positive due to the gear configuration (some of us dive with gear this way), there should only be a maximum of about six pounds (really, more like three or so) of weight to swim up. It will not be fun to keep this up for long. However, it can be done. (This is why basic physical conditioning is also a good idea.) So, starting from being properly weighted will make a big difference in the first place.

I just can't see how a person can become certified without knowing the proper amount of weight to use for a dive. True, the student will drop a few pounds of lead over time. However, it should only be a few pounds, not 10 to 20.

Perhaps this accident would have happened regardless of many things. After all, there is a spike of accident incidents for newly certified divers. However, adding this much weight to a person, unless that person were wearing a very thick, multiple-layered wetsuit, and unless this were a very large individual, would just be asking for an accident to happen. Even with thick suits, 30 pounds is a lot of lead to wear.

Edited by ScubaDadMiami, 22 December 2005 - 10:10 PM.

[Latitude Adjustment]

Most people don't want to drop their weights, that's why in rescue class you ask the diver in trouble to pass you his weights and then you drop them
Beings this woman only had 10 dives I'm guessing it was a rental BC, she wouldn't be framiliar with it, it may have had leaks but we will never know.