55 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

Seafox,

I am too lazy to quote you, but I am in complete agreement. Yes, most of my diving on the lakes is deep and cold as I am sure that you experience out of Toronto (Have you thought of North Carolina on the Fourth of July? Lots of double tank/deco divers going on that trip ). I am still basically a newbie in this realm and have much to learn. Conversely, I can have much to impart with my basic "tech" training being done currently. I just completed my Normoxic Tri-mix/Technical Diver program last July.

But, the minute that I think that I know it all, I am looking at bad things happening to me. I am too young for that with too many dives to enjoy! Why foul it up by pretending that I know everything?

One thing that I do know is that my instructor pounded into me that I had better self reliant if I intended to be in overhead environments. Buddies are great, but in the end I have to be in a position to not be a danger to the dive team (even if the team is one).

For those of us who solo dive (raises hand for guilty as he hooks wrecks), we are still part of a dive team. What about the surface support (aka the captain, crew, and support divers if the dive requires them)? In my mind they are part of the dive team. We have to make sure that they know our dive plans and know when "mama needs to worry".

But, I think that it is great that you are trying to teach divers to think of themselves as self-sufficient prior to entering technical training. My instructor did it with my Advanced Nitrox and I am glad that he did. It made me a far more confident and thinking diver.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Methinks 'tis better to dive alone than to dive with an unsafe partner. Who can the instructor depend on when taking new students into the water for their first open water dives? Really, such a situation is like a solo dive but with higher risk due to the new divers being about.

Solo diving is done all the time. It can be done with lower risk or higher risk. That is the choice of the diver.

I enjoy diving as part of a good team more than I enjoy diving alone. However, rather than increase my risk by diving with a dangerous partner, I prefer to dive alone.

[6Gill]

Methinks 'tis better to dive alone than to dive with an unsafe partner. Who can the instructor depend on when taking new students into the water for their first open water dives? Really, such a situation is like a solo dive but with higher risk due to the new divers being about.

Solo diving is done all the time. It can be done with lower risk or higher risk. That is the choice of the diver.

I enjoy diving as part of a good team more than I enjoy diving alone. However, rather than increase my risk by diving with a dangerous partner, I prefer to dive alone.

What he said.....

[seafox]

Read this on the "DECO STOP" this morning and wanted to share it with you as it seemed to be a propos!

[b]Originally Posted by swadiver
i have been tech/cave diving for 20 years so i feel comfortable in accepting the higher risks involved in solo diving[/b]

Are they really higher?
I have a feeling that many macho divers do stupid things when they have a diving buddy, things they wouldn't or don't do if or when they dove alone.
In other words, I know of many accidents or incidents apparently caused by the overconfidence, complacency or false sense of security given by the presence of a buddy. Or other divers go beyond their comfort threshold just because they don't want to appear "afraid", "scared" or "gutless", or maybe they don't want to "ruin" the dive by calling it, so they go ahead and an accident happens.
I used to solo cave dive a lot, just because I had no one to dive with. Now I have little time and many great cave diving friends, so I seldom solo dive.
But, regardless, I consider myself solo all the time so don't rely on the buddy to handle possible emergencies.
If the buddy is there I enjoy the dive more because I share the pleasure, and especially enjoy the pre and post diving time.

A friend said to me.....

..if you think solo diving is dangerous, then it probably is and you shouldn't do it....

[devilgas]

When you can go on a tech dive trip with me.. daily dives to 275-350 fsw. bottom times 20-25 minutes with 45-60 minutes of deco in open ocean. Then you can call yourself a technical diver.

[seafox]

When you can go on a tech dive trip with me.. daily dives to 275-350 fsw. bottom times 20-25 minutes with 45-60 minutes of deco in open ocean. Then you can call yourself a technical diver.

I find your criteria rather demanding.
As an Instructor Trainer I find it somewhat surprising and unrealistic.
The profile you are describing is simply an extension of an already good and experienced tech diver,
or a fool.
Diving to 350' doesn't make you a tech diver, but it could easely make a diver a dead diver!
There is a great deal more to technical diving than going deep.

[Capn Jack]

When you can go on a tech dive trip with me.. daily dives to 275-350 fsw. bottom times 20-25 minutes with 45-60 minutes of deco in open ocean. Then you can call yourself a technical diver.

As good a definition as most I've seen.

btw, welcome aboard to SD - sorry I missed welcoming you in response to one of your earlier posts - several of them have had me in stitches - like the DIR one.

I was also going to point out that I think the PADI Peak Performance cert is better than DIF-F, but probably should wait for a quieter time on the board.

Again - - I look forward to more!! And I do hope to dive with you sometime, although not to 350.

[TekDiveGirl]

When you can go on a tech dive trip with me.. daily dives to 275-350 fsw. bottom times 20-25 minutes with 45-60 minutes of deco in open ocean. Then you can call yourself a technical diver.

I find your criteria rather demanding.
As an Instructor Trainer I find it somewhat surprising and unrealistic.
The profile you are describing is simply an extension of an already good and experienced tech diver,
or a fool.
Diving to 350' doesn't make you a tech diver, but it could easely make a diver a dead diver!
There is a great deal more to technical diving than going deep.

I agree completely seafox.

devilgas -- I *could* do said dive trip -- question is really -- is there room on a boat for other people after your head gets on there?

[Diverbrian]

I am with Kimber and Seafox on this one. I know too many divers who want to dive as deep as they are able because they can and not because of what there is to see at those depths. I could easily plan and execute a dive to 200 ft. with the equipment that I own and the training that I have.

I don't dive that deep (except a few times per year) for the reasons that I don't have great deal to see at those depths and I don't necessarily enjoy a ton of deco time on bodies of water known for ignoring weather forecasters and being very cold. If there is something to see, I'll be there. I don't intend to learn to dive to 275 ft. just to say that I did it.

That does not mean that I have the option of taking any dive lightly. The minute that you do... Well, read the account of Bernie Chowdhury getting bent in The Last Dive. He darned near died in a dive that most of the "technical divers" like myself and certainly a cave diver like Bernie are qualified to do. He took the dive lightly and dove sick. The result spoke for itself. A year of rehab and near death from a DCS hit with neurological involvement is a huge lesson in that regard.

[ScubaDadMiami]

is there room on a boat for other people after your head gets on there?

[webhead]

One expression that I like to remember is that only I can breathe for me, only I can swim for me, and only I can dive for me.

I just finished training with the author of that saying. Anyone know who that is?

Sounds like you've been training w/ Master Tom and the importance of self rescue.

So what about rebreathers? And mixes gas - Nitrox or Trimix? It is possible and likely that someone would dive a rebreather less than their no-deco time. It's also likely that someone would dive trimix to 120 feet even if it is not a deco dive.

There is a legal definition of technical diving for instructors and insurance. But over time, I think that will change. Just like most don't consider Nitrox technical, some day, many may not consider normoxic trimix technical. And same with rebreathers and even short deco dives ( less than 5 minutes deco).

Maybe technical diving should be any dive instruction that requires math to complete and pass the written test. :-)