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The Andrea Doria


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#16 Mitch0129

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:50 PM

I've spoken with my cousin who has dove on the Doria about 2 dozen times. He always stresses the physical fitness part of diving. The man use to hump his steel double 120's up and down the stairs of his condo everyday for weeks as a workout before doing Doria dives. Imagine hooking up 5 tanks to your BC, plus all the other gear and stepping off that dive boat. I'll pass, thank you very much!


Dan, do you think that your cousin would make all of the effort and face all of the adverse conditions inherent to diving the Doria to dive another wreck of similar depth? The Doria has a certain "charisma" (for lack of a better word) about it that seems to make some divers forget that diving is supposed to be fun.


I would think that is the case. I think the Doria attracts those kind of divers who want to attempt the dive just so they can brag about it and impress their friends. How it got the charisma that it did, I will never know. The Lusitania lies at an identical depth in conditions somewhat similar to the Doria yet I have yet to hear of anyone wanting to dive on it.

Edited by Mitch0129, 04 August 2008 - 07:51 PM.

-Mitch-

#17 Latitude Adjustment

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 07:16 AM

Another problem with the Andrea Doria is the NE divers lust to bring a piece of it home. The china is the easy stuff, this being an Italian liner has tilework and statues too. All the easy stuff has been collected so now to find something you must go deeper into the wreck inviting more trouble.

BTW, I was in NYC and saw the Stockholm come in with it's bow torn up.

For more info click here: Anrea Doria page

Edited by Latitude Adjustment, 05 August 2008 - 07:20 AM.

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#18 Hipshot

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 07:18 AM

I would think that is the case. I think the Doria attracts those kind of divers who want to attempt the dive just so they can brag about it and impress their friends. How it got the charisma that it did, I will never know. The Lusitania lies at an identical depth in conditions somewhat similar to the Doria yet I have yet to hear of anyone wanting to dive on it.


Mitch, I don't think it's so much about the bragging rights as it is a sense of personal gratification in having dove the legendary ship. Its charisma may have come (at least in part) from Peter Gimbel, who really hyped it.

Rick

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#19 Geek

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:59 AM

I would think that is the case. I think the Doria attracts those kind of divers who want to attempt the dive just so they can brag about it and impress their friends. How it got the charisma that it did, I will never know. The Lusitania lies at an identical depth in conditions somewhat similar to the Doria yet I have yet to hear of anyone wanting to dive on it.


Mitch, I don't think it's so much about the bragging rights as it is a sense of personal gratification in having dove the legendary ship. Its charisma may have come (at least in part) from Peter Gimbel, who really hyped it.

Rick

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I think this is well put. The wreck is also extremely famous because of all the publicity when it went down.

While the wreck is quite a distance offshore, the fact that it is offshore from New York City makes it accessible to a tremendous number of divers as well. The biggest limitation to attempting it is getting a spot on a boat out to it.

#20 Mitch0129

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:28 AM

The Stockholm, the ship which collided with the Andrea Doria, is still in service today. Over the years, it was sold to various shipping interests and renamed each time. Currently, it is a cruise ship named the Athena.

MS Athena
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#21 shadragon

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:26 PM

The biggest obstacle to determining causes of death on the Doria is the way the bodies are recovered. When discovered at depth they are attached to a lift bag and shot to the surface. All the N2 boils out of the blood and when they do an autopsy they find all tissues ruptured and cause of death is wrongly assigned as "Heart failure".

Kind of like saying the cause of death on a suicide jump victim was "concrete poisoning".

Respect to the folks that do the Doria dive, especially the pioneers who did it on air, but it is not for me... Am quite happy @ <132'...
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#22 NJBerserker

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:58 PM

I don't think it's necessarily bragging rights either that has people training for the Doria. Personally, It is a culmination of self achievement in diving to be invited/allowed on a Doria trip. Yes there's something about touching it that's cool, but more important is the satisfaction in being good enough to do so. I definitely someday would like to reach that level and explore many such wrecks all over the world. Wrecks are tangible history and I find that very cool and interesting. I also like the exploration part of diving, the chance to see things or go places no one has seen or been in god knows how long. The only areas of diving that is really happening right now is wrecks and caves. I wish I could have gone on the two wreck-hunting trips I was invited on for this season.
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#23 Capn Jack

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:26 PM

The only areas of diving that is really happening right now is wrecks and caves. I wish I could have gone on the two wreck-hunting trips I was invited on for this season.

I'll see your cave and raise you 3-tank boat dives with Dive_Girl, SunTrooper and DiveGirl412 in 86 degree south pacific waters surrounded by more critters from nudibranchs to barracuda, reef sharks, grays and whalers than you can count.

I'll see your wreck and raise you Pocahontas, ScubaPunk and SecretSea18 in equally warm waters.

You really need to rethink your diving priorities. :wakawaka:
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#24 ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:47 PM

I derive great satisfaction from planning a technical dive, and then executing the dive according to plan. It's like shooting for the perfect 10 (I'm a former gymnast. So, it's already in my blood.)

The important issue becomes why to make such dives. This involves honest personal evaluation, which is not always easy to do. Legitimate reasons usually involve wanting to see the given target but also involve enjoying the dive along the way. If reaching the goal alone is the reason behind the dive, I think that it is time to re-think making the dive in the first place.

Personally, I have no desire to dive the Doria. Yes, it would be kind of cool. However, from what I have been told, there isn't much left to the structure anymore. So, it isn't like being able to dive the multiple decks, rooms and halls of the vessel anymore. In short, it sounds like making a dive there would involve just being able to pull off the dive, and that is not enough motivation for me to try it.

Nothing against anyone who decides to try the dive. However, it comes down to the reason of the particular individual behind making the dive. I am sure that many have legitimate reasons for making the trip.
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#25 Latitude Adjustment

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:05 AM

Respect to the folks that do the Doria dive, especially the pioneers who did it on air, but it is not for me... Am quite happy @ <132'...


Not only on air but steel 72's with J-valves, before real drysuits and wreck reels! One of the earliest dives if not the first was a group that hired a fishing boat to take them out. Once they found the wreck it was late and they planned to dive it in the morning, the captain informed them he was not sitting in the shipping channel all night so they dove. What passed for a waterproof flashlight back then was pretty dim!

I have no interest in the Doria but would like to have done the Texas tower since I was almost stationed on it.
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#26 secretsea18

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:50 AM

This is from the Wikipedia on the Andrea Doria website.
The entire web page is too much to put here, but a very interesting read. In addition, the location of the sunken ship is much closer to Martha's Vineyard than to Long Island, NY, but it is associated more to NY as that was the ship's destination. The numbered references as listed here refer to the wikipedia entry, for those interested. I thought that this would help for readers of this thread such as myself, who have known about the AD, but not specific information. I strongly recommend folks look at the info on the actual collision with the Stockholm, the heroism of the rescuers and the events of the 12 hours following the collision on the wiki. It's very informative. I google mapped the coordinates to find the spot in the ocean of the wreck.


"Diving on the wreck site (exerpted from the Wikipedia)

A painting of the decaying SS Andrea Doria circa 2005, with its superstructure gone and hull broken after 50 years of submersion in swift North Atlantic currents.Due to the luxurious appointments and relatively good condition of the wreck, with the top of the wreck lying initially in only 160 feet (50 m) of water, Andrea Doria is a frequent target of treasure divers and is commonly referred to as the "Mount Everest of scuba diving." The comparison to Mt. Everest originated, after a July 1983 dive on the Doria, by Capt. Alvin Golden, during a CBS News televised interview of the divers, following their return from a dive expedition, to the wreck, aboard the R/V Wahoo. The wreck is located at 40°29′30″N 69°51′00″W / 40.49167, -69.85.[10]

The day after Andrea Doria sank, divers Peter Gimbel and Joseph Fox managed to locate the wreck of the ship, and published pictures of the wreck in TIME magazine. Gimbel later conducted a number of salvage operations on the ship, including salvaging the First Class Bank Safe in 1981. Despite speculation that passengers had deposited many valuables, the safe, opened on live television in 1984, yielded little other than American silver certificates and Italian bank notes. This disappointing outcome apparently confirmed other speculation that most Andrea Doria passengers, in anticipation of the ship's scheduled arrival in New York City the following morning, had already retrieved their valuables prior to the collision.

The ship's bell, often considered the 'prize' of a wreck, was retrieved in the late 1980s by a team of divers led by Bill Nagle.[11] The statue of Genoese Admiral Andrea Doria, for whom the ship was named, was removed from the first-class lounge, being cut off at the ankles to accomplish this. Examples of the ship's china have long been considered valuable mementos of diving the wreck. However, after years of removal of artifacts by divers, little of value is thought to remain.

As of 2007, years of ocean submersion have taken their toll. The wreck has aged and deteriorated extensively, with the hull now fractured and collapsed. The upper decks have slowly slid off the wreck to the seabed below. As a result of this transformation, a large debris field flows out from the hull of the liner. Once-popular access points frequented by divers, such as Gimbel's Hole, no longer exist. Divers call the Andrea Doria a "noisy" wreck as it emits various noises due to continual deterioration and the currents' moving broken metal around inside the hull. However, due to this decay new access areas are constantly opening up for future divers on the ever-changing wreck.


Deaths
Artifact recovery on the Andrea Doria has not been without additional loss of life. Fifteen scuba divers have lost their lives diving the wreck,[12] and diving conditions at the wreck site are considered very treacherous. Strong currents and heavy sediment that can reduce visibility to zero pose as serious hazards to diving this site. Dr. Robert Ballard, who visited the site in a U.S. Navy submersible in 1995, reported that thick fishing nets draped the hull. An invisible web of thin fishing lines, which can easily snag scuba gear, provides more danger. Furthermore, the wreck is slowly collapsing; the top of the wreck is now at 190 feet (60 m), and many of the passageways have begun to collapse.

1985 — John Ormsby died after being caught in wires and drowning.[13]
1998 — Craig Sicola, Richard Roost and Vincent Napoliello all died diving on the Andrea Doria.[13]
1999 — Christopher Murley and Charles J. McGurr both died of apparent heart attacks preparing to dive.[13][14]
2002 — William Schmoldt died from decompression sickness.[15]
2006 — Researcher David Bright died from decompression sickness.[16]
2008 — Terry DeWolf of Houston, Texas dies during dive on wreck, cause of death is still undetermined. This death raises the total to 15.[17] "

Edited by secretsea18, 07 August 2008 - 11:51 AM.


#27 ScubaGypsy

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 08:00 AM

The Empress of Ireland seems to have similar attractions as the Andrea Doria. Though it is located in the fresh water Saint Lawrence River and the depth is 130', the conditions are reported as low to no viz and temperatures always in the 30s (F).

The 2001 book Dark Descent provides a nice description of diving the Empress since its sinking in 1914. Curious if there have continued to be diver deaths on this wreck as well.

Have any SDers dove it?
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#28 VADiver

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:29 PM

The Empress of Ireland seems to have similar attractions as the Andrea Doria. Though it is located in the fresh water Saint Lawrence River and the depth is 130', the conditions are reported as low to no viz and temperatures always in the 30s (F).

The 2001 book Dark Descent provides a nice description of diving the Empress since its sinking in 1914. Curious if there have continued to be diver deaths on this wreck as well.

Have any SDers dove it?


Nope, but she's on the list...along with the U-869

Edited by VADiver, 08 August 2008 - 04:31 PM.


#29 NJBerserker

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

I agree with VA Diver. The Doria, Empress, and U-869 (U-Who) are the big three on the list. I just hope there's something left of the Doria when I'm at that level. . . we'll see.
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#30 peterbj7

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:56 PM

And if you go to Cyprus try to get a real dive on the Xenobia.




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