84 replies to this topic

[Divegirl412]

Dive rite transpac. Love it except that it DOES occasionally trap air. Removed the integrated weight pockets to add actual pockets to the belt, then the weight belt was a problem because of the crotch strap. Had to wear it too low to allow for ditchability.. if needed. Made for some interesting (and undesirable) vertical swimming!!! Will be trying out a DUI harness for weights in Roatan.

Annasea, I do have the xs scuba pocket belt and I like it a lot except for the BC crotch strap problem. It works great with the other crotch strap-less BCs. The pocket location is adjustable which can help you adjust the positions a bit easily without doing the "twisty belt" thing to hold the lead weights, as with the more basic weight belts. You can use both hard and soft weights with it.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[PerroneFord]

What problem did you have between the crotch strap and the weightbelt?

[cmt489]

Right now I dive a Scubapro Ladyhawk. It is a weight integrated back inflate.

Me too!!!

Me too!!! well sorta... diving a Knight Hawk... same BC for men. I really like it except I dont like the way i feel at the surface withthe back in flate... I only dive with 6lbs max and someone told me to stick all the weight in my trim pockets to help that feeling out a little... Going to Key Largo next weekend so I will try that... just hope it doesn't ruin my dive profile while diving.

Do you feel it pushes you forward on the surface? I felt that too - but now I put weights in the trim pockets - and don't fully inflate on the surface. Works great now!!

I have not found that but I have heard that complaint. Truly, I have no complaints with mine at all.

[Divegirl412]

What problem did you have between the crotch strap and the weightbelt?

Hard to visualize unless you know me. I am a very small woman which means that even with the extrasmall BC, most of my torso is covered up, including my waist. The D rings are very low on me, which means the strap is truly a crotch strap. That means that if I use the crotch strap, and the weight belt is around my waist (where I prefer it). it is actually under the crotch strap. So if I (or my buddy) had to emergently drop my weights, it would get caught by the strap on the way down and I would still be weighted down!!! So with that in mind, I try to wear it over the crotch strap so it is ditchable. But that means essentially wearing it around my hips which drags my legs down. Tried it without the strap, and the backinflate BC floats up around and above me. so.. I think the harness will work though. Keeps the weights around my waist and anterior ditchable, so can be released without worrying about the strap. Guess I will find out in 2 weeks!

[annasea]

I have more questions...

Location of weight on a weight integrated BC:

Typically, a weight-integrated BC is set up with removable pockets in which you can put in ditchable weight (if you need to drop weight) and other permanent pouches where you can put weight that cannot be ditched. The removable and ditchable pouches are usually in the front torso area of the BC, so that you can get to them easy in the event you need to ditch weight. The permanent pouch location varies more, but typically it on the tank strap area.

While it sounds great to have weight carried on something you already need to wear, Perrone's comments found earlier in the thread bring up a interesting point:

I also don't care for weight integrated BCs as I think they are a bad idea. Should the need arise to come out of your gear underwater (entanglement, no mount restriction, some other malady) having the weight seperate from the BC would allow me to be neutral underwater. If the weight is in the BC, the diver would become HUGELY positive, and unless firm grip is maintained with the BC, the diver will be sent for a rocket ride.

Hopefully, I'll never encounter such a situation, but if I do, something tells me I'd rather not have to deal with clinging to my BC. But then if this were a real life situation, entanglement for example, where am I getting my air/gas from? My reg or my buddy's? If I'm getting it from mine still, then I need to stick with my BC, don't I? What's the scenario here? Am I freeing my air source from the BC, too, in addition to myself, and only the BC gets left behind? Am I freeing the BC and the air source as one unit? Or have I abandoned my gear and I'm breathing off my buddy's back-up?

Perrone,

Along the same lines, as someone who does not require a weight belt, are you not in the same situation as those who wear a weight integrated BC? All your weight is in your BP/W, just as a weight integrated BC wearer carries all their weight in their BC. Neither of you wears a weight belt, so what happens if you get stuck in an entanglement?

I have another set of questions regarding fit but I'll save it for later.

[Walter]

I have more questions...

Location of weight on a weight integrated BC:

Typically, a weight-integrated BC is set up with removable pockets in which you can put in ditchable weight (if you need to drop weight) and other permanent pouches where you can put weight that cannot be ditched. The removable and ditchable pouches are usually in the front torso area of the BC, so that you can get to them easy in the event you need to ditch weight. The permanent pouch location varies more, but typically it on the tank strap area.

While it sounds great to have weight carried on something you already need to wear, Perrone's comments found earlier in the thread bring up a interesting point:

I also don't care for weight integrated BCs as I think they are a bad idea. Should the need arise to come out of your gear underwater (entanglement, no mount restriction, some other malady) having the weight seperate from the BC would allow me to be neutral underwater. If the weight is in the BC, the diver would become HUGELY positive, and unless firm grip is maintained with the BC, the diver will be sent for a rocket ride.

Hopefully, I'll never encounter such a situation, but if I do, something tells me I'd rather not have to deal with clinging to my BC. But then if this were a real life situation, entanglement for example, where am I getting my air/gas from? My reg or my buddy's? If I'm getting it from mine still, then I need to stick with my BC, don't I? What's the scenario here? Am I freeing my air source from the BC, too, in addition to myself, and only the BC gets left behind? Or am I freeing the BC and the air source as one unit?

Perrone,

Along the same lines, as someone who does not require a weight belt, are you not in the same situation as those who wear a weight integrated BC? All your weight is in your BP/W, just as a weight integrated BC wearer carries all their weight in their BC. Neither of you wears a weight belt, so what happens if you get stuck in an entanglement?

I have another set of questions regarding fit but I'll save it for later.

Ditchable weight in an integrated BC will be in pockets toward the bottom front of the BC.

You would be breathing off your own regulator in such a situation, so yes you do need to stay with your BC. That's much easier to do if you are not floating away and only staying with the BC because of a death grip on the BC. If you slip, you've lost your air source. OTOH, with a weight belt, you won't be floating away.

If a person has no ditchable weight and is positively buoyant without the BC, then that person is in the same position as one in a weight integrated BC, if they have to remove the BC.

[PerroneFord]

Perrone,

Along the same lines, as someone who does not require a weight belt, are you not in the same situation as those who wear a weight integrated BC? All your weight is in your BP/W, just as a weight integrated BC wearer carries all their weight in their BC. Neither of you wears a weight belt, so what happens if you get stuck in an entanglement?

I have another set of questions regarding fit but I'll save it for later.

You've made an assumption here that is not correct. I do not require weights when I wear my 5mm shorty wetsuit. In other configurations I might or I might not. However, below 15ft, when my wetsuit compresses, I become more negative. If I had to remove my BC at 15ft or below, I would not float away from it.

My BC is approximately 3 pounds negative with an empty AL80, and about 6 pounds negative with empty twin 80s. While that is certainly signficantly negative, in an integrated BC, you would require 20-32 pounds in yours so your BC would be HUGELY negative on it's own, and without that weight (which was offsetting your exposure suit) YOU would become extremely positive. This is why I recommend weighting the diver seperately from the weighting the BC. On it's own, my BC requires no weight. to sink. Some with quite a bit of padding require a bit of weight. So taking off my BC at depth would leave it slightly negative. Since I weight myself to be neutral with my exposure suit, at depth, my suit compresses and I am slightly negative. So if I needed to ditch my gear, both my BC and myself, would be similarly negative and would not float away from one another.

This balance is ONLY possible if you weight yourself seperate from your BC. THe other problem here is that with depth, the wetsuit compresses and you become more negative since the suit provides less buoyancy. With a trilaminate drysuit, the suit does not compress more at depth and your buoyancy is maintained throughout the dive. A far more comforting scenario.

[Walter]

My BC is approximately 3 pounds negative with an empty AL80, and about 6 pounds negative with empty twin 80s.

How are you able to decrease your buoyancy moving from a single empty 80 to twins since empty AL 80s are positively buoyant? Are your bands that negative?

[PerroneFord]

No, but the bands, manifold, dual regs, and tailweight are...

[annasea]

Thanks for the replies, Walter and Perrone!

<snip>

This balance is ONLY possible if you weight yourself seperate from your BC. THe other problem here is that with depth, the wetsuit compresses and you become more negative since the suit provides less buoyancy. With a trilaminate drysuit, the suit does not compress more at depth and your buoyancy is maintained throughout the dive. A far more comforting scenario.

I'm hoping to dive *tropical* more often than not, so while you bring up a good point about the wetsuit compressing, I'm hoping in a 3mm, this won't be that big an issue. Regardless, a weight integrated BC is at the bottom of my wish list. But since it seems that the majority of vest-style BCs being sold -- at least in Vancouver -- ARE weight integrated BCs, I may get stuck with one anyway. I'm guessing I can still choose to wear a weight belt and forego the weight options on the BC itself... but then I'm stuck with unnecessary, drag-inducing extra padding, correct?

[Walter]

You're not stuck with one until you buy one. Simply buy something different. The Scubapro Classic Sport is ideal, IMO.

[PerroneFord]

Thanks for the replies, Walter and Perrone!

I'm hoping to dive *tropical* more often than not, so while you bring up a good point about the wetsuit compressing, I'm hoping in a 3mm, this won't be that big an issue. Regardless, a weight integrated BC is at the bottom of my wish list. But since it seems that the majority of vest-style BCs being sold -- at least in Vancouver -- ARE weight integrated BCs, I may get stuck with one anyway. I'm guessing I can still choose to wear a weight belt and forego the weight options on the BC itself... but then I'm stuck with unnecessary, drag-inducing extra padding, correct?

As I see it, you have a number of viable options.

1. Purchase a weight integrated BC. Use weights in the BC and no weightbelt.

2. Purchase a weight integrated BC. Use weightbelt instead of integrated weights.

3. Purchase an unpadded, non-weight integrated BC and use a weightbelt.

4. Purchase a BP/W use no weights in tropical conditions, minimal weights in cold water.

[annasea]

I read what you're writing, Walter and Perrone, but you're very fortunate to live where you do in terms of dive gear selection. While there are quite a few dive shops here in the Lower Mainland, their selection is severely lacking for the most part. And don't even get me started on the customer service of some! I've been to most of them recently and quite frankly, there's not one that I feel comfortable enough with (trust) to buy a big ticket item such as a BC or reg from.

I had a look at your recommendation, Walter, and noticed that it was a full-inflate jacket with what I'm guessing was an Air2 attached. Assuming I'm correct with my guess, is it optional or removable? (I quite liked the octo.)

Which leads to another question... what about fit? Just how should a vest-style BC fit?

When I read Rosa's post, she wrote of the majority of her torso being covered up, including her waist. Granted, she's wearing a different style of BC than I did, but in both my OW courses, I was wearing a *men's* XS vest-style BC and both times my waist was covered as well. Just where should a proper-fitting BC end?

I'm leaning towards #3, Perrone.

[Dive_Girl]

Which leads to another question... what about fit? Just how should a vest-style BC fit?

When I read Rosa's post, she wrote of the majority of her torso being covered up, including her waist. Granted, she's wearing a different style of BC than I did, but in both my OW courses, I was wearing a *men's* XS vest-style BC and both times my waist was covered as well. Just where should a proper-fitting BC end?

This can vary based on diver personal preference. For me, I want the BC or wing/BP setup to end above my weight belt or if no weight belt present, at my waist so it does not grind into or ride on my hips, which is uncomfortable.

[PerroneFord]

Please see the following photo:

http://www.zeagle.co...amp;link=ZenaBC

This is the correct fit. As you will notice, it leaves very little room for a weightbelt. Nearly all vest style BCs will be rather long, and cover the waist, making it difficult to don the weightbelt. The Genesis you tried on should have been indicative of that.

I am sorry you are having such a hard time getting fitted for a BC. I'm afraid the problem is much the same as getting fitted for a wetsuit. Although the solution is there, you keep avoiding it, so I'll let that be. But I would solicit the opinions of female divers here, and on other boards to see what they have had success with in the vest-style BCD arena.

I do know that many have found that tjhe back inflate models were more comfortable as they didn't squeeze so much in all the wrong places. It was rather odd watching your OW instructor try to convince his daughter she wanted a chest strap on her BP/W when she was adamantly saying she did NOT want one. Why he felt that any woman would want a piece of two inch webbing RIGHT across the middle of her bosom is beyond me. I know you never met his daughter but she is about 5'6 and a decent C cup. She LOVES the hogarthian harness because it doesn't squeeze her anywhere and it works nicely with her very small waist. And now she doesn't need a weightbelt...