44 replies to this topic

[finGrabber]

Kim, I can live with a one hour time limit on a dive, but I'm not thrilled with it. I'm happy to limit my dive to an hour and a half to help with the schedule. I've seen some captains try to limit dives to less than an hour. I'm not happy with that. BTW, thanks for the compliment.

You are very welcome for the compliment - you deserve it!

I get a little irritated when other divers on a boat expect me to be out of the water at the same time they are, this is usually less than an hour

our dive op in Roatan tried to limit our dives to less than an hour until I told him I'm a dive pro too....doesn't seem that it should take that much info to be able to dive my profile and that of my awesome buddy (ScubaPunk!)

and I'd dive with you anytime, Walter; I think I've improved quite a bit since the last time I went diving with you

[Latitude Adjustment]

What if in the hot tropics some blonde shows up in a dry suit, should the Captain assume she is going deep looking for cold water?

[WreckWench]

Gawd! That is a horrible picture! I look like I NEED some cold water!!

Heck LA you know I get cold ALL THE TIME!!! Why do you think I live in Texas????

Hint: It ain't the scenery!!!

[Blackhawk]

Ok I'm going to assume As a diver with tech gear YOU took responsibility to interview the dive op. Ask the needed questions about what there rules are and so forth.

So given that you KNOW the rules and I told I was recerational only and you went ahead and brought doubles you would NOT be allowed to dive with them. Once you get into the water with them how do I know you'll stay in the limits we already discussed?

all these issues should and can be resolved before hand by asking a few questions. This is our responisibility as divers. It's up to us to make sure we are safe, and it's up to us to make sure the boat allows us to use the gear we want...

It up to the Dive op to enforce those rules

would you buy a car without first finding out if it has the specs you want?

[6Gill]

We just book the whole boat...
There are several operaotrs we have developed a good working relationship.We let them know which dives we're planning and pick a date and time.All they ask is we show up,don't overload the boat(more of a gear issue not a people issue).
Having the type of diving we have right here makes it easy to develop these relationships over time.

[Walter]

So given that you KNOW the rules and I told I was recerational only and you went ahead and brought doubles you would NOT be allowed to dive with them. Once you get into the water with them how do I know you'll stay in the limits we already discussed?

What does diving doubles have to do with staying within limits discussed? Most trips are two tank dives. Doubles are two tanks. I often use doubles for two tank dives. It saves me the need to switch tanks between dives. It saves me from carrying extra lead. I carry them myself, I don't need help boarding the boat. Why should you care that I dive doubles? Keep in mind, my doubles hold about 128 cu ft, I could carry two single tanks with 130 cu ft each and be well within your gear limitations. Are you sure you want to have such a policy?

[shadragon]

I suspect some operators don't allow doubles from an expense perspective. While the tech divers are doing deco for 2 hours they have to pay their crew and have additional expenses for no additional income. Perhaps that cuts into other charter time for them as well. Plus the inherit dangers of tech diving increases their exposure to accidents and bad press. My compromise: Most operations have a "two tank dive" charter for the day. If you want to take two tanks then you should only get the one dive.

I typically carry a reel, lift bag, at least 2 flashlights and safety sausage among other things on all dives. I have no qualification in Wreck Diving (Yet), but do use the reel for safety stops if I am off the descent line. I have a piece of orange trail tape at the 15' mark and it is a great visual indicator. I have used it on scallop and drift dives and as the boat can see it too, the boat or RIB is usually waiting for me when I hit the surface.

As a charter operator, if you are going to dictate to me what gear to take on dives then at least be up front with it BEFORE I pony up the dough. On their website would be perfect.

[PerroneFord]

Shadragon, think what you're saying. Just because I dive double's doesn't mean I empty them on the first dive. I usually try to end my first dive with 1800psi in the tank. Assuming we are talking non-overhead, OW recreational dives. Then on the second dive, I try to end the dive with about 500-600psi.

[Walter]

Shadragon, think what you're saying. Just because I dive double's doesn't mean I empty them on the first dive. I usually try to end my first dive with 1800psi in the tank. Assuming we are talking non-overhead, OW recreational dives. Then on the second dive, I try to end the dive with about 500-600psi.

BINGO!

[PerroneFord]

Walter,

People who don't dive doubles aren't really "trained" to think about ending a dive with 1500+ psi left. It's a mental focus shift. I can remember ending a dive with my buddy where he was at about 700psi and he asked me what I had, and I said about 1500.

He suggested we switch tanks. I noted that 1500psi in doubles was akin to a full 80. The light bulb turned on.

I hate diving singles now.

[WreckWench]

Shadragon, think what you're saying. Just because I dive double's doesn't mean I empty them on the first dive. I usually try to end my first dive with 1800psi in the tank. Assuming we are talking non-overhead, OW recreational dives. Then on the second dive, I try to end the dive with about 500-600psi.

BINGO!

This is a concept that some operators have not figured out yet. Just as some divers don't understand it either. Once people become more knowledable things will improve.

Most operators that I know will allow 1 set of doubles...how you use your gas is up to you. However it is more effecient using doubles as ALL your gas left over from the first tank is readily available to you on your second dive. If had 1000 psi left over on my first dive that gas stays in my first tank if I'm using single tanks.

OTOH...carrying doubles can be difficult and traveling with them is impossible if you are flying!

[Blackhawk]

Walter,

People who don't dive doubles aren't really "trained" to think about ending a dive with 1500+ psi left. It's a mental focus shift. I can remember ending a dive with my buddy where he was at about 700psi and he asked me what I had, and I said about 1500.

He suggested we switch tanks. I noted that 1500psi in doubles was akin to a full 80. The light bulb turned on.

I hate diving singles now.

I understand what you're all saying... You're still adjusting your dive to end at the agreed time\psi\rec limits...

But what if you don't? You come on to a dive op place with doubles or a rebreather or whatever... and say "Oh don't worry I'm diving rec limits just using my prefered gear" and then do a tech dive anyway?

Will this scenario happen often? Probably not but it is a risk... and

simply a situation that can be solved at booking by taking two seconds to say "I dive doubles is that a problem?" ... When they state their policy you make adjustments according to your desires.

all I'm saying, making sure the op allows use of certain gear is OUR responsibilty not theirs.

[Geek]

A boat captain can set the rules, but if a boat didn't allow redundant air systems, or any other equipment I thought necessary for the dive, I would not dive with that boat again. I think it is called "capitalism".

[PerroneFord]

Let me explain why this becomes a problem.

I want to dive several wrecks off Panama City, FL. I call each operator and ask if I can bring double tanks for my personal well being and agree to dive within recrational limits. No operator is willing to let me dive doubles. So unless I am willing to sacrifice my personal safety, I am restricting to diving the area, unless I charter a boat privately. Panama City as a commercial destination is now off limits to me. No big deal you say, Florida's a big place. Suppose we now extend that same thinking to the keys operators since the GREAT majority of them don't service dive areas where doubles would be warranted.

Those of us who choose to dive differently from the masses for whatever reason, are suddenly excluded. So what do we do? We develop our own charters in a lot of cases. This is beginning to happen in many areas that have deeper wrecks. Frankly, I am glad to see it happen. No more hassles about doubles and stages. No more crazy looks for showing up with 5 tanks. No strage looks when you roll up with a rebreather. No one mandating about 45minute to 1hr dives only. Technical only charters cost more. Gotta pay to play. No biggie to me.

Frankly, I think this is the answer. I really do feel bad for the RB guys who have to listen to us noisy divers underwater. I wish I could just go CCR with them sometimes but I can't. I need to get a KISS so I could at least enjoy the shallow dives quietly.

-P

I understand what you're all saying... You're still adjusting your dive to end at the agreed time\psi\rec limits...

But what if you don't? You come on to a dive op place with doubles or a rebreather or whatever... and say "Oh don't worry I'm diving rec limits just using my prefered gear" and then do a tech dive anyway?

Will this scenario happen often? Probably not but it is a risk... and

simply a situation that can be solved at booking by taking two seconds to say "I dive doubles is that a problem?" ... When they state their policy you make adjustments according to your desires.

all I'm saying, making sure the op allows use of certain gear is OUR responsibilty not theirs.

[Diverbrian]

If I bring one set of doubles, I may end the day with 2500 psi left in them or end it 500-600 psi if I take the one set for two "recreational" dives. It depends on the wrecks that I am diving. I have done both. I seldom dive single tanks anymore though. I tend to take a set of doubles and a bottle of EAN50 or oxygen if the wrecks. The deco bottle doesn't take up that much room and I tend to feel better when I clean up with a richer mix even if I never left recreational limits.

I got more upset with restrictions on my deco bottle than anything else. I had that happen on one trip. One operator in Deerfield Beach even let me take it along when we doing intermediate level wreck and reef dives. Boat captains up here know that I have common sense with the thing. If we find ourselves on a shallow wreck I will often just use the doubles.

I nearly always take a reel and lift bag to use as a surface marker in case I get caught away from the line. I do like it if the boat can see where I am at if I have to do safety stops away from the line. No operator has ever complained to me about that.

Only a couple of operators up here complain about doubles. The reason is that the only have enough deck space for the single tank set-up on the decks. The second tank is stored below decks to save precious deck space. The doubles have too wide a profile on the limited bench space. I don't tend to use those operators anymore. But there boats are in places like Chicago where most of the wrecks are at thirty or forty feet and I was able to do two dives on a single eighty. The divers made a gentleman's agreement on that trip to keep dives to an hour so that we all got back in at a decent time.

So, after one fiasco where I didn't personally verify my dive plans with the operator, I will clear my dive plans with the operator before the boat leaves the dock ensure that I come away a satisfied customer. If they change the rules midway, I will play the game (being ex-Navy, the captain is absolute king/queen or his/her vessel), but will make my comments later.