30 replies to this topic

[Geek]

You seem to have covered the regulator hoses. I used to use a 5' and put the excess length under a couple loops of surgical tubing on the cam bands when diving a single tank. That worked fine, but I have since switched to 7' configuration as I am diving doubles more. Note that the real value of a 7' hose is in an air sharing situation where you may need to swim out end to end as opposed to an open water situation where you can ascend face to face. Hoses are pretty inexpensive relative to other gear, so I wouldn't worry about the cost of a 7' hose if you buy something shorter and then change your mind later.

The one hose I found to be most problematic is the hose to the inflator. If it is a couple inches too long or too short it can cause the corrugated hose to lay funny. Since the corrugated hoses are in different lengths it is easy to get a mismatch. This hose normally comes with the BC or wing and should be the right length for a single tank set up. If you switch to doubles or change your wing, you may find you need to change this hose too for one that is a few inches longer or shorter.

The swivels mentioned are simply connectors that allow the attachment of the hose to the first stage in a manner that allows some movement instead of the straight out at a right angle connection that is generally in place. There are some people who will avoid swivels as a potential failure point, though I have never heard of one failing. I found them handy to use with a deco bottle to get all the hoses to lay real flat against the bottle while stowed and to get the hose to go where I wanted when I deployed it, but I don't use any swivels on my main regulators.

I am not aware of any branding issues with hoses, but if you see one that looks worn replace it right away. The last thing you need is one breaking under water.

[scubafanatic]

Karl,

Do you have any pictures of you on land or in the water with this recreational setup?? I'm REALLY curious how you are routing a 32" or 36" HP hose to your D-Ring without it hanging halfway down your thigh.

I am also curious how you store your octo with a 36" or 48" hose.

Why do you suggest adding a swivel to the primary? And why would anyone need a OPV on the first stage with two second stages attached? Usually this is done when the first stage has no second stages attached (like an argon reg feeding a drysuit).

Hi Perrone,

...no, I don't happen to have any photos handy, but I keep the computer and SPG clipped off as noted, they both stay streamlined...no danglies.......they clip off by the weight pouches, waist level.......of course, remember the optmium hose length is a function of many diver variables...... on a shorter diver, a 32" or 36" hose would likely dangle down as you observed.

...with respect to the octo, I bungie the octo 2nd stage under the chin....... the 36" hose isn't 'stowed' in any way, the 48" hose is stowed under the wing bungies.......the 36" hose really isn't long enough to be a serious snag hazzard in recreational 'reef' diving...... the 48" is more prone to snag on things so I do stow the extra length.

...the 2nd stage swivel is a comfort feature......and if you've ever seen the Atomic brand one you'd rest more easily with respect to the failure probability issue.

...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

[annasea]

<snip>
...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

::running off to log onto TDS to search for this thread::

[scubafanatic]

Watch the following video, then ask yoursellf if you could manage something similar with a 40" hose:

http://www.divetekad...os/VideoOOA.htm

HAH! The answer is... YES! If you want the details, I'll PM you.

Thx for the input, Gray. What exactly is a swivel, BTW?

I'll check out one of Vancouver's decent LDSs later this week, and report back accordingly.

Hi annasea,

what's a 'swivel ' ? ...hmmm, well there are basically 3 types to consider:

1) 1st-stage 'turret' swivel ( these are usually an integral part of the 1st stage, you can't add one of these later on, you need to buy the reg with one already designed into it from the manufacturer. )
2) 1st-stage hose swivel ( can be added aftermarket, a few regs have them from the factory ie. Dacor Viper)
3) 2nd-stage hose swivel ( Tusa/Oceanic/Apeks/Atomic are the ones offering these as standard or options on their regs.....they are also added aftermarket.)

....they're used to give a diver more options in routing hoses....when used properly, they provide increased diver comfort and lead to very 'professional' looking ( slick ) gear configurations.

....it would be simplest to visit an appropriate LDS to see these in person so it makes more sense to you.

Karl

[scubafanatic]

<snip>
...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

::running off to log onto TDS to search for this thread::

...here's the relevant thread:

http://thedecostop.c...t=apeks hp seat

Karl

[PerroneFord]

Hi Perrone,

...no, I don't happen to have any photos handy, but I keep the computer and SPG clipped off as noted, they both stay streamlined...no danglies.......they clip off by the weight pouches, waist level.......of course, remember the optmium hose length is a function of many diver variables...... on a shorter diver, a 32" or 36" hose would likely dangle down as you observed.

Yea, but I'm 6ft tall, and my 24" clips off easily. That's why I am having such a hard time visualizing. My SPG came with a 32" hose and I was diving it before I had a chance to change out the hose. It literally hung halfway down my thigh. So I am just wondering how you are routing it so that it actually works.

...with respect to the octo, I bungie the octo 2nd stage under the chin....... the 36" hose isn't 'stowed' in any way, the 48" hose is stowed under the wing bungies.......the 36" hose really isn't long enough to be a serious snag hazzard in recreational 'reef' diving...... the 48" is more prone to snag on things so I do stow the extra length.

I also use a bungie backup under the chin. I think this is a great way to have your backup reg stowed. On doubles I use a 22" hose, and on singles I use a 24" hose. Again, just having trouble visualizing your setup.

...the 2nd stage swivel is a comfort feature......and if you've ever seen the Atomic brand one you'd rest more easily with respect to the failure probability issue.

There are some swivels out there that are high quality. The Atomic being one of them. Some have a history of failure and a LP failure at depth, with the lack of redundancy most OW divers have, is a scary proposition, and I tend to not recommend them. If someone tells me they are putting a swivel on a stage reg, I generally rest more easily.

...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

Now this one is interesting. I've seen a lot of ATX100s and ATX200s, and a ton of DS4s, and I have never seen any with an OPV. Do you have a link to that discussion? [edit: I see you posted it] If not, I'll try to hunt that down. Very, very interesting. When you say the 2nd stage adjustment "fully closed" do you mean the internal adjustment, or the user adjustment on the outside of the regulator? I can't imagine that Apeks would sell a second stage that would allow you to hold back 300psi with the normal factory 2nd stage adjustment.


For reference, I have attached two images. Both show me in my doubles config.

7ft hose (tucked into waistband) with the regulator clipped to right chest d-ring
22" backup reg hose
24" spg hose
Compuer on right arm
Backup time on left wrist
knife on waistband
..and a borrowed light since I wasn't going into the cavern that day but got talked into it! (the horror!)


The Three Amigo's picture shows a nice comparison between a recerational hose configuration with standard length hoses on the diver at left, the diver in the middle is diving a recreational confuguration with a 40" hose for a primary, and has cleaned up his config, and then me on the right with the technical hose config. For those who wondered if all those hoses on a technical diver with 2 tanks go all over the place... now you know. Which diver poses the largest snag threat?

-P

Attached Images

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Edited by PerroneFord, 26 March 2007 - 08:30 PM.

[finGrabber]

I'd vote for the left hand guy as most likely to get entangled in something

now, how do you measure for new hoses? I'm looking at replacing my singles hoses with new, more streamlined ones; I am also looking at hose lengths for a doubles config too. Is there a good resource for this information??

[Scubatooth]

FG

On my current set up for singles i have a 7' hose and im able to wrap it around once without to much excess. i route it under my weight pockets for my DUI Delta BC across my chest, behind my head and around and its comfortable and doesnt pull my head in any direction. Personally i dont think i could run a 5' hose on a single set up but time will tell once i get my BPW all set up for singles and doubles, but i think i will probably stay with the 7' hose

Tooth

[PerroneFord]

Is there a good resource for this information??

You mean like the link in my signature that says gear questions answered here... and where you can scroll down to "hoses" and read?

You don't have to configure your hoses the way the DIR folks do. I like it because it's simple, it works, it doesn't require adding swivels or anything, and it's easy.

I've seen some configs where the SPG is clipped to the left chest D-Ring, I've seen where the console clips to the right chest D-Ring coming across the body. I've seen people wear their primary on a bungee around the neck and donate an octo on a 40" (or shorter) hose. I've seen hose configs for independent doubles including sidemounts. I've seen people stuff 7ft or 9ft hoses in bungee attached to tanks.

There's a lot of ways to skin the cat, some I feel are better than others. If you care to know more, just ask. If you want a full compendium of how to rig DIR and why, you want a book called Dress for Success by Dan Mackay:

http://www.amazon.co...t...5878&sr=1-1


-P

[annasea]

<snip>
...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

::running off to log onto TDS to search for this thread::

...here's the relevant thread:

http://thedecostop.c...t=apeks hp seat

Karl

Thanks for the link, Karl. I skimmed the DS thread as well as the SB one mentioned in it, and I must say, as a new diver who selected Apeks regs, I'm worried...

[scubafanatic]

<snip>
...... there's quite a long and interesting DecoStop thread/discussion with respect to the strong recommendation that APEKS 1st stages be equipped with an OPV...... yes, I'm aware a 2nd-stage free flow SHOULD eliminate the need for an OPV...however, on APEKS regs, over-balancing IP combined with high bias 2nd stages ( an APEKS 2nd stage, adjusted to fully closed, can hold back in excess of 300 psi) can overwhelm most BCD inflator mechanisms and lead to run-away inflation of the wing.

Karl

::running off to log onto TDS to search for this thread::

...here's the relevant thread:

http://thedecostop.c...t=apeks hp seat

Karl

Thanks for the link, Karl. I skimmed the DS thread as well as the SB one mentioned in it, and I must say, as a new diver who selected Apeks regs, I'm worried...

...Hi annasea,

...well, that was information I encountered after my purchases as well....but overall it's not something that really worries me, although I did purchase and install an OPV on my pair of XTX 200's just to be sure. Remember, it's only something that will come into 'play' in the event of an 1st-stage HP seat failure, which is a rare event, especially on regs properly maintained/serviced at appropriate intervals, moreover my understanding is that Apeks regs have great, durable HP seats anyway....it's it's just an extra safety feature to protect against a pretty low probability problem, and for about $ 25 extra per reg set, it's easy to put that concern to rest.

I still highly recommend the Apeks XTX 200, and I think you will be very well served by it, so install the OPV (screws into one of the 1st-stage LP ports) and don't lose any further sleep over it.

Karl

[Scubatooth]

scubafanatic

figure you would know this. what is the difference between the ATX200, ATX200 tungsten and the XTX200?

Tooth

[annasea]

...Hi annasea,

...well, that was information I encountered after my purchases as well....but overall it's not something that really worries me, although I did purchase and install an OPV on my pair of XTX 200's just to be sure. Remember, it's only something that will come into 'play' in the event of an 1st-stage HP seat failure, which is a rare event, especially on regs properly maintained/serviced at appropriate intervals, moreover my understanding is that Apeks regs have great, durable HP seats anyway....it's it's just an extra safety feature to protect against a pretty low probability problem, and for about $ 25 extra per reg set, it's easy to put that concern to rest.

I still highly recommend the Apeks XTX 200, and I think you will be very well served by it, so install the OPV (screws into one of the 1st-stage LP ports) and don't lose any further sleep over it.

Karl

You're kind, Karl. Thank you.

[PerroneFord]

ATX vs XTX the XTX is a newer model that does away with the oversized primary LP port on the first stage. All the LP ports on the XTX series are the same size, which facilitates carrying ONE size hose for replacemtns. The ATX series had a larger bore size for the port typically used for the primary regulator. But it meant if you wanted to carry a spare, it had to be for THAT size, or you had to use an adapter to adapt it to a common size.

I don't know what the deal is with the Tungsten model.

[6Gill]

Thanks for the link, Karl. I skimmed the DS thread as well as the SB one mentioned in it, and I must say, as a new diver who selected Apeks regs, I'm worried...

Don't be....IP tester is a handy tool.We'll make one up so you can check on a regular basis.I have friends(and these are the ones other can also see)that dive Apexs with no issues logging alot of time
I've got a 5ft hose around here if you want to try it.
Put me down in the 22" SPG on doubles,24" for single tank(I find that to long on the doubles)