79 replies to this topic

[Geek]

I read Shadow Divers, but I am not sure what you, Perrone, are referring to that would cause someone to like or dislike a particular plate. While I have not tried this plate, I did see it at Beneath the Sea and my reaction was I couldn't put a MQ Pack style pocket on it. That's not a big deal, but I like to stuff my lift bag into that style pocket, so it is a preference thing with me.

If you, nydiver, dive Dutch regularly and think it is a noticable difference, I would like to try it there. You're welcome to try my equipment if any of it makes you curious.

[cmt489]

I would avoid the additional undergarments. If you need something warmer than the Bare, then get a different one.

Next question: Where do you have the exhaust valve set? I enter the water with mine fully open and close it a few clicks before adding any air, generally about 15-20 feet down. My son leaves his all the way open all the time. If you have the exhaust valve more than four clicks from fully open, then you are probably getting too much air in the suit.

Something is causing you to use too much weight in the drysuit vs. the weight you use diving wet.

The additional undergarmets I wear in the winter are not bulky - they are silk long underwear. Occassionally I will wear a little bit more as well but nothing that traps air.

The exhaust valve is set where I was taught to leave it - completely open.

What is causing me to use so much weight? Hmm, I suspect that it might be my butt...

[Geek]

Well I feel silly, I took a deluxe harness from Zeagle at BTS (bill is in the mail to the shop), and now I'm getting a Crital Aspect Pteradactyl (sp?) plate to test dive. For those who missed BTS and have never seen this you need to take a looky (www.criticalaspect.com) it looks wide as the deco-stage bottle d-rings are hung off the plate, but neater is next to them are harness rollers. The idea is the shoulders open wide and once your in, you pull the waist straps like normal and BAM its tight as a drum. I think that's pretty neat, only thing I suggested was eliminating the cross at the shoulders and putting in a rivet or flush bolt to hold the straps from sliding in the plates shoulder slots (those in the know will get the idea).

On the zeagle its just another harness system, like most of the generic plates, but it also does singles with no adapters, not a big deal, but it does do it.

I did see the Pteradactyl at the BTS and spoke with the inventor about it for some time. THere are some interesting innovations on both the plate and harness, the most notable being those rollers. They are nice, even when you are just getting in and out of the harness, since you can get some temporary slack in the sholder straps very easily.

I have already set up my BP with rollers mounted right between the bottom web slots. Provides a similar funtion to the Pteradactyl design. This allows you the option to either use the rollers or the slots. I did need to drill four 1/4" holes in the plate, but, as someone pointed out already, not a tough job if its aluminum. After that, it's all just Home Depot hardware. I'll try to get some pics up.

I would like to see the pics so I can see what you used and how you did it. Better yet, if you are going to be at Dutch, I would like to see the actual plate.

[Geek]

I would avoid the additional undergarments. If you need something warmer than the Bare, then get a different one.

Next question: Where do you have the exhaust valve set? I enter the water with mine fully open and close it a few clicks before adding any air, generally about 15-20 feet down. My son leaves his all the way open all the time. If you have the exhaust valve more than four clicks from fully open, then you are probably getting too much air in the suit.

Something is causing you to use too much weight in the drysuit vs. the weight you use diving wet.

The additional undergarmets I wear in the winter are not bulky - they are silk long underwear. Occassionally I will wear a little bit more as well but nothing that traps air.

The exhaust valve is set where I was taught to leave it - completely open.

What is causing me to use so much weight? Hmm, I suspect that it might be my butt...

If that were the case it would affect your weight requirements while diving wet too, but I have run out of suggestions.

[nydiver]

I have already set up my BP with rollers mounted right between the bottom web slots. Provides a similar funtion to the Pteradactyl design. This allows you the option to either use the rollers or the slots. I did need to drill four 1/4" holes in the plate, but, as someone pointed out already, not a tough job if its aluminum. After that, it's all just Home Depot hardware. I'll try to get some pics up.


After seeing the CA design I thought about how to modify a plate and called back to the office, a buddy from engineering said I would have no problem doing it and sourcing the parts out of the scrap bin. The idea is to enlarge the slots slightly and put a roller right behind the slot so the harness rolls instead of sliding and cutting the webbing. Really simple, I'll probably modify the Zeagle harness I got this weekend. Anyone who wants holes drilled in a plate or the roller mod done can contact me.

[nydiver]

I read Shadow Divers, but I am not sure what you, Perrone, are referring to that would cause someone to like or dislike a particular plate. While I have not tried this plate, I did see it at Beneath the Sea and my reaction was I couldn't put a MQ Pack style pocket on it. That's not a big deal, but I like to stuff my lift bag into that style pocket, so it is a preference thing with me.

If you, nydiver, dive Dutch regularly and think it is a noticable difference, I would like to try it there. You're welcome to try my equipment if any of it makes you curious.

I would quite enjoy that, I know we (our shop) is going to Dutch in July, and Pir8 invited me down too, I am definatly going to go this year (I've never been). And like I told Pir8, anytime you want to give the St. Lawrence wrecks a try give me a hollar, I go there as much as I can and I have a handy little Zodiac fc470 to zip around the river or lake ontario.

[drbill]

I don't particularly like diving backplates (I have two), but do think the DSS backplate is extremely well manufactured. Far better than some of the cr*p Halcyon was foisting on the diving public early on... I can't understand why a manufacturer would sell a commercial backplate that wasn't deburred.

Unless you plan to travel with the plate, I'd go with stainless steel. If you plan to travel, consider aluminium.

Will you want the flexibility to dive a single tank as well (especially when traveling?). Look for one with a built in STA (single tank adaptor) or one for which an add-on STA is readily available.

I love the flexibility of a BP/wing, but I get the same flexibility for the most part... and a much snugger fit... with my soft harness and wing. Just my (NSHO) Not So Humble Opinion.

[BubbleBoy]

I would like to see the pics so I can see what you used and how you did it. Better yet, if you are going to be at Dutch, I would like to see the actual plate.

Here you go.










The parts all all basic aluminum stock and cold forged. No heating or welding required. Its important to get the slope of the spindle at about a 20 deg angle from the plane of the plate, increasing towards the bottom. That way your waist strap comes off the spindle at the correct angle.

I do plan to be at Dutch Springs this year. I have to... I bought a season pass at BTS. I think we should set up a checkout dive day around their opening in April. I've got a number of gear additions and enhancements (hopefully) that I need to test before getting into the salt water with them.

[Geek]

I would like to see the pics so I can see what you used and how you did it. Better yet, if you are going to be at Dutch, I would like to see the actual plate.

The parts all all basic aluminum stock and cold forged. No heating or welding required. Its important to get the slope of the spindle at about a 20 deg angle from the plane of the plate, increasing towards the bottom. That way your waist strap comes off the spindle at the correct angle.

I do plan to be at Dutch Springs this year. I have to... I bought a season pass at BTS. I think we should set up a checkout dive day around their opening in April. I've got a number of gear additions and enhancements (hopefully) that I need to test before getting into the salt water with them.

I can see what you did, but what aisle of Home Depot has those rollers? What are they and where did they come from?

I also have a season's pass and hope to be out there soon. I've heard April 14 is opening day, but I'll probably be there on Sunday the 15th, not Saturday.

Edited by Geek, 27 March 2007 - 04:35 PM.

[BubbleBoy]

After seeing the CA design I thought about how to modify a plate and called back to the office, a buddy from engineering said I would have no problem doing it and sourcing the parts out of the scrap bin. The idea is to enlarge the slots slightly and put a roller right behind the slot so the harness rolls instead of sliding and cutting the webbing. Really simple, I'll probably modify the Zeagle harness I got this weekend. Anyone who wants holes drilled in a plate or the roller mod done can contact me.

There are probably a number of ways of going about this that will provide improvement. You might even get away with mounting a simple half cylinder on the back of the plate between the slots. This will allow your harness webbing to follow a smooth countour as it loops through the plate, without forming the sharp angles that cause it to bind. Just be careful not to get too much apparatus on the back of your plate that could interfere with or cause abrasion to your wing. I'm probably going to add a small padding flap to the back of my configuration, just to be safe.

[BubbleBoy]

I can see what you did, but what aisle of Home Depot has those rollers? What are they and where did they come from?

I also have a season's pass and hope to be out there soon. I've heard April 14 is opening day, but I'll probably be there on Sunday the 15th, not Saturday.

The rollers are cut from aluminum tubing, which you can get in 3' sections in the hardware aisle. They usually have the solid aluminum rod in 3' sections in the same rack. The little half cylinder ties on the back of the plate were cut from cable connectors, about two racks down.

I'll let you know if I can make Dutch on the 15th.

[JimG]

A flooded suit not only loses that bouyancy, but you are now trying to lift the water in the suit, which isn't going to vent. Depending on how tight the fit of the suit and how much water we are talking about, you could easily be looking at a 15-20 lb swing in bouyancy. One gallon of water weighs 10 lbs and you now have to lift it. It is in the suit, not part of the outside environment.

Water in the suit doesn't matter - it will be buoyed up by a force that is exactly equal to its own weight, so it's a zero sum game. The only buoyancy you will lose is due to gas escaping from the suit, which should not be more than a few pounds worth.

[PerroneFord]

Water in the suit doesn't matter - it will be buoyed up by a force that is exactly equal to its own weight, so it's a zero sum game. The only buoyancy you will lose is due to gas escaping from the suit, which should not be more than a few pounds worth.

Exactly, basic physics. Where this becomes a bear is when you try to get OUT of the water!

[PerroneFord]

I read Shadow Divers, but I am not sure what you, Perrone, are referring to that would cause someone to like or dislike a particular plate.

The inability to extricate one's self because of uncuttable metal to meat connections is one of the primary takeaways from that book.

[JimG]

Water in the suit doesn't matter - it will be buoyed up by a force that is exactly equal to its own weight, so it's a zero sum game.

Exactly, basic physics. Where this becomes a bear is when you try to get OUT of the water!

Been there, done that, got the (wet) T-shirt.