79 replies to this topic

[fala]

For all of you divers out there who own backplates/wings I wanted to know if there is anything specific to look for when purchasing and whether you know of any brands that you consider top quality. I am specifically interested in a setup for doubles. Also, other than buoyancy considerations does it matter whether you get aluminum or steel?

Thanks

[PerroneFord]

For all of you divers out there who own backplates/wings I wanted to know if there is anything specific to look for when purchasing and whether you know of any brands that you consider top quality. I am specifically interested in a setup for doubles. Also, other than buoyancy considerations does it matter whether you get aluminum or steel?

Thanks

(opens the BIG can of worms...)

Ok, lets keep this one simple.

There are many things to look for when purchasing a BP/W. Especially the wing. In terms of quality, I consider there to be three tiers. Lets talk about the plates and harness (Hog) first

Plates:

How the plate is shaped, basically how large it is, the material it's made from, and how it's bent, all dictate your experience with it. Most people do them quite similarly. Some have a few features that other's don't.

Top Tier:

1. DSS
2. Halcyon

Second tier

1. Dive Rite
2. Golem
3. Koplin / Oxycheq
4. Apeks/TDL
5. Hammerhead


Wings are a lot more finnicky. There is the single bladder which I don't really recommend for doubles, there are bag in a bladder which are quite common, and there are dual bladder. The material of both the inside bladder that holds air as well as the fabric covering can tell a lot about the wing. Some are VERY puncture resistant, some are abrasion resistant. These are tradeoffs that often work against each other.

The shape of the wing tells a lot. Do you wear a heavy weightbelt? If so, then a wing that's wider at the bottom may help you out. How long is the wing? Does it extend beyond the bottom of the tanks you use? If you're diving with two HP80s, a wing designed for 104s won't work.

How much lift capacity do you need? Are you diving with a wetsuit and AL80s in 80F water? Or are you diving 300ft deep in the great lakes with a drysuit, and 4 deco bottles? Makes a big difference.

Also, do you want a circular wing, or a more traditional hoseshoe shape. The circular, or donut shape, has a number of major advantages.


So before you are going to get a meaningful answer to your question, you are going to need to provide a lot more information about what you are doing, what your exposure suit(s) will be, what tanks you'll be using, etc.

[Geek]

For the backplate, the main consideration is AL vs. Stainless Steel. They all take doubles and generally need a Single Tank Adapter (STA) for a single tank. I personally use AL and need no lead when diving doubles, so I don't see any point to adding more weight with the steel. Your situation may vary. The other advantage of AL is if you want to drill another hole in it to mount something you can do it. With SS that can be a challenge.

Since a plate is just a hunk of metal, there isn't much to justify one brand vs. the other. The only thing I have found is that if you want a pocket similar to the MQ pack from Halcyon, they are available from several manufacturers but they are not interchangeable from brand to brand. I know OMS and Oxycheq have them.

The wings are where the big differences exist. Depending on your size, configuration, etc. you may find significant differences in your ability to trim out right. I personally like the Oxycheq wings, but there are a lot of wings I haven't tried. Here in NJ OMS is also popular.

You did not ask about the harness. If you are buying piecemeal and want a Hogarthian style harness you can buy webbing and make your own. That's what I do and I have been very satisfied with the result. I use heavy webbing like you see in weight belts for the harness, softer webbing for the crotch strap, and soft 1" webbing to make a chest strap. The chest strap is optional, but I like the way it cinches everything tighter and the way the straps land on my shoulders when the chest strap is in place.

Edited by Geek, 27 March 2007 - 11:53 AM.

[JimG]

For the backplate, the main consideration is AL vs. Stainless Steel. They all take doubles and generally need a Single Tank Adapter (STA) for a single tank. I personally use AL and need no lead when diving doubles, so I don't see any point to adding more weight with the steel.

Same here - I use an AL backplate, mainly because I feel that it gives you more versatility with your weighting.

I have one of the Halcyon weighted STAs (with removable weight), and it's very easy to reconfigure for different tanks. With an AL backplate, weight in the STA, and a single AL80, I need no weight in salt water with a 3mm jumpsuit. If I use a single steel 80 instead, then I can take the weight out of the STA and that's about perfect. In fresh water, I can use the AL80 and no weight in the STA.

The SS backplate is more negative, which would probably be a little too much weight with a single.

For doubles, I normally use LP104s (with a drysuit of course), and require no additional weight. If I use double 80s, I can dive wet with no weight, or add a V-weight if I am diving dry.

[BubbleBoy]

FALA,

I am also gravitating towards a BPW setup for ocean diving here in the NE. I liked the super-slender Oxycheq Mach V that I saw at BTS, but this is for single tank mounts only. Oxycheq also just came out with a super duty ballistic outer shell option for some of their single and doubles wings that stood up to 1000 slices with a razor blade in a test before it finally failed.

You should also check out the Larry Greene signature wing from OMS. I met Larry at the BTS. He is a seasoned cave diver and has put in a lot of time developing the shape and size of this horseshoe wing for ideal trim and horizontal diving.

As always, the ultimate test is getting in the water with any one of these and seeing how you like it.

[cmt489]

I am also looking to go the BP/W for local diving as I find they fit my drysuit much better. I will be looking for a steel backplate since that reduces the amount of weight that I have to wear with my drysuit. I know that most divers up here use steel plates for this very reason as, given all the thermals we have to wear under our drysuits, a lot of weight is required!

[PerroneFord]

There are a lot of very good products out there.

The LG Signature OMS wing has it's plusses, but it's width and length are optomized for 104s. Not everyone dives those. It's balance point is also going to be very far down the wing which may or may not suit everyone. It's also a horseshoe wing, which presents some challenges in venting with doubles if you are not used to it. I saw that wing nearly 2 years ago at the NACD convention, and thought it was ok. I've spent some time talking to Larry, and we even got our cave reels tangled at Devils Ear!

Oxycheq has a bunch of wings out there. The new extreme wings (new tough outer cover) are nice and patterned after another competitor who has incredibly tough wing covers.

If resistance to abrasion and puncture is your thing, check out wings by Golem Gear. Nothing tougher on the market. But they are hoseshoe wings only.

If a buyer is looking to buy a wing, I'd suggest putting a horseshoe shaped wing in the water, and then a circular wing. Do a few ascents and descents in each. Check your SPG with both. Reach into your drysuit pocket with each. Run a reel with each. Get a feel for how each responds to you being both horizontal, and in off-kilter positions.

I have 2 circular doubles wings (DSS Torus 45, Halcyon Evolve 60), 1 horseshoe wing (Dive Rite Classic), and one circular bladder singles wing (Halcyon Pioneer 27). I have used a variety of others, and selected these becase they work well for how I dive.

I hope others would do the same. But leave the marketing hype on the sales floor.

[WreckWench]

Let me add a few other questions for you...

1. Will you dive a single tank as well as doubles or is this set up only for doubles?
2. What type of diving do you plan to do with it? Cold, warm, some of both, deep wrecks?
3. The beauty of a bp/w is the modular approach that you get. Meaning you can use one backplate if chosen wisely and then just change wings for the type of diving you are doing. A 20 or 30# wing for single tanks in warm water and 30# if diving cold water single steel tank with drysuit and or possibly a 40# wing if not diving dry or you are a larger sized diver or use LOTS of lead. And a 60# wing or more if doing doubles. And at least one manufacturer aka DeepSeaSupply does not require a single tank adaptor so one less expanse if you go this route. I know that it works as I use the DSS bp for my singles and doubles and I use a DSS wing for single tank dives and OMS wing for doubles.

And after you get these questions worked out then we can talk savings for you. We are a dealer for DeepSeaSupply and have special corporate arrangements for our premier members with OMS and DiveRite.

You are in good hands! kamala

p.s. it was great to meet you in person at BTS!! Can't wait to see you on the Belize trip!

[Geek]

I am also looking to go the BP/W for local diving as I find they fit my drysuit much better. I will be looking for a steel backplate since that reduces the amount of weight that I have to wear with my drysuit. I know that most divers up here use steel plates for this very reason as, given all the thermals we have to wear under our drysuits, a lot of weight is required!

Are you diving single tank only or AL tanks? I find with steel doubles, which are typical in this area, that I do not need any weight whatsoever with an AL plate, while wearing a drysuit. With a single tank I will need less than 10 lbs.

If you are not using a BP/W now, I suspect you will find the switch allows you to drop about 4-6 lbs even with the AL plate and no other changes to your configuration.

[cmt489]

Single tanks and, while I don't have my tanks yet, I will be getting steel. The diving I have done is with steel. What I can tell you is with a single tank I need more than 10 lbs even with the steel tank and a steel BP/W. I am shockingly bouyant - suppose that means I need a diet! LOL!

[PerroneFord]

What undergarment(s) are you using with that drysuit?

[JimG]

I am also looking to go the BP/W for local diving as I find they fit my drysuit much better. I will be looking for a steel backplate since that reduces the amount of weight that I have to wear with my drysuit.

That's a good point - it's rare for me to dive a single in a drysuit, but when I do, the weighting (with the AL backplate) can be a challenge. What I normally use in that situation is a single steel tank, weighted STA, and then I attach about 8-12 lbs of weight to the cam straps on the tank (the exact amount depends on which undergarment I am using, whether I am using a can light, etc).

If I am not using a can light, I will also usually stick a single 3-4 lb weight on the waist strap in the place where the light would normally go. I also sometimes wear a weightbelt, but hardly ever need more than 4-6 lbs on it, so it's not too difficult to deal with.

That's about the only time I ever wish I had a SS backplate, but it's so seldom that I dive that config, that I can't really justify the expense.

[PerroneFord]

I went with the steel route to start with. Glad I did as it allowed me to take weight off my belt. I don't use weight any more, unless I am diving AL80, in the ocean, with a wetsuit, and then I need about 5 pounds.

I need to pick up an AL plate now, but an AL plate with a harness is less than $100. It'll be sized for my drysuit and it should make life MUCH easier than trying to go back and forth.

Honestly, by the time you get the BP, backup lights, can light, and knife onto the rig, it's pretty negative.

[Geek]

Single tanks and, while I don't have my tanks yet, I will be getting steel. The diving I have done is with steel. What I can tell you is with a single tank I need more than 10 lbs even with the steel tank and a steel BP/W. I am shockingly bouyant - suppose that means I need a diet! LOL!

I'll interpret "more than 10lbs" as 12 lbs for illustration. Simply switching to the BP/W, with an AL plate, will probably result in a drop of 6 lbs. That was my experience. Going to double tanks will drop another 4 lbs when the tanks are near empty. This leaves you with only 2 lbs of ditchable weight. I would advise you to seriously consider AL rather than the diet.

[JimG]

Going to double tanks will drop another 4 lbs when the tanks are near empty. This leaves you with only 2 lbs of ditchable weight. I would advise you to seriously consider AL rather than the diet.

And if you replace your plastic fins with a pair of JetFins, you can get rid of the weightbelt altogether!