41 replies to this topic

[Scuba dew]

No you're right. There most certainly is a market out there for drysuits outside of caving and wreck diving. I suppose that would be quarry divers. Because I think very few of the cold water divers I've ever met are diving in cold water to dive walls or see cold water mammals.

That said, I also think the market for drysuits without a single pocket is pretty small too.

Being a WWW I try to avoid any situation that requires a dry suit! However California diving is beautiful but cold, I've done a few trips to the channel islands and toughed it out in a wetsuit. The Great White trip was an eye opener, I could only take the cold about ninty minutes and the drysuited were only coming up to eat so I do see a drysuit in my future.
I would have gone to the DUI Dog day at Lake Rawlings Va. but I had a head cold working on me.

Hey Ray I've been meaning to ask and I hope this isn't one of those dumb questions, but what does WWW stand for?

[cmt489]

What does WWW stand for?

Warm Water Wuss/Wimp

[Scuba dew]

No you're right. There most certainly is a market out there for drysuits outside of caving and wreck diving. I suppose that would be quarry divers. Because I think very few of the cold water divers I've ever met are diving in cold water to dive walls or see cold water mammals.

That said, I also think the market for drysuits without a single pocket is pretty small too.

Here's another one of those dumb questions, but what is the pocket used for? The Viking suit I used did have a pocket on it, but wouldn't your BC pockets be sufficient? Or is there a technical answer I'm not aware of? I've never done a cave dive before and the only real wreck dive was the Hilmer Hooker in Bonaire last month, which didn't really have any access to enter it. I'm strickly an open water diver, so I guess the pocket would be for your equipment to enter wrecks? Which I wouldn't do anyway without the proper training. Help me out here.

[Scuba dew]

What does WWW stand for?

Warm Water Wuss/Wimp

Gottcha

[cmt489]

Fair enough. I have asked the representative on SB the same question. Who is the target for the suit. If it as you suggest, inexperienced drysuit divers in the PNW, then I will accept that. I've never been further north on the pacific coast than San Francisco, but isn't the coast up there rocky? Wouldn't that present something of a challenge to a lycra covering? And if someone were boat diving, wouldn't they want a place to store their SMB, whistle, light, signal mirror, or other emergency gear? Is the suit aimed at females only? I don't see any neat provision for a P-Valve without cutting the lycra cover.

I am more than willing to admit that I may be one of the few people who "don't get it" with the suit. Maybe I am just out in left field on this one. But it seems like a gear solution to a skill problem. Take the 2 weeks necessary to become skilled with a drysuit, and much of the appeal of this suit goes away. At least it would seem.

Honestly, if the suit had a pocket or two, and provision for a P-Valve, I could see it getting some real traction in cave country. The idea of having a shell suit, with neoprene drysuit streamlining, is appealing. But it doesn't appear that was the target.

As already stated by others, many cold water divers do dive just to see the cold water life, especially in the PNW. It is also a fairly big industry up here (albeit, not as big as diving in Florida but a big industry all the same). Also, don't forget that many other countries have climates similar to the PNW, namely Eurpean countries. I have known many people from Europe who dove their local shores in a drysuit.

While I have not seen the suit, as for the assertion that it is for people to "get used to drysuits", I don't know if I necessarily agree that the appeal would be lost after the first couple of weeks. What is wrong with new technology that improves the fit and performance of our dive gear? It has been happening for years. Just because it is easier and more comfortable does not make it inferior in anyway.

Re the rocky shores, since footwear will be in use, I can't see how this is an issue. I generally don't recommend crawling around the shore line in your drysuit. If someone is really worried, I am sure kevlar knee pads can be affixed to the suit. I'm also pretty sure that Whites, being a BC company, has also thought of this issue.

Re the p-valve, well, if it can't be installed, I guess the guys will just have to do what us gals do - either diaper up or hold it. It is not the end of the world. Many PNW men also dive this way instead of installing a p-valve. And I also know female tech divers (Dive_Girl being one of them) who manage those long technical dives without the assistance of diapers or p-valves. It is far from the end of the world.

[PerroneFord]

As already stated by others, many cold water divers do dive just to see the cold water life, especially in the PNW. It is also a fairly big industry up here (albeit, not as big as diving in Florida but a big industry all the same). Also, don't forget that many other countries have climates similar to the PNW, namely Eurpean countries. I have known many people from Europe who dove their local shores in a drysuit.

Again, I can see it for the PNW kelp, wall divers. etc. Even people in similar climates doing similar things. However the current marketing push didn't seem directed at that market, which is what had me curious.

Re the rocky shores, since footwear will be in use, I can't see how this is an issue. I generally don't recommend crawling around the shore line in your drysuit. If someone is really worried, I am sure kevlar knee pads can be affixed to the suit. I'm also pretty sure that Whites, being a BC company, has also thought of this issue.

I don't think it's so much the getting in, as it is the getting out. It seems to be common to fall a bit coming out, or even have to crawl out depending on conditions. That could really put some wear and tear on a lycra cover.

Whites has thought of this. They are apparently offering a different cover for the suit. A 1mm neoprene cover. This has it's own issues, but it is their solution for the wear and tear issue.

Re the p-valve, well, if it can't be installed, I guess the guys will just have to do what us gals do - either diaper up or hold it. It is not the end of the world. Many PNW men also dive this way instead of installing a p-valve. And I also know female tech divers (Dive_Girl being one of them) who manage those long technical dives without the assistance of diapers or p-valves. It is far from the end of the world.

Come on now! Guys get ONE advantage. Let us have the P-Valve!

[Scuba_Dad]

Come on now! Guys get ONE advantage. Let us have the P-Valve!

Now let's be PC... it's called an Overboard Discharge Valve.

[gcbryan]

White's is located in British Columbia I believe where almost everyone is diving in cold water to dive walls.

I believe you are right. And in that context, it may make sense. But would you agree that the market (PNW wall divers) is pretty small? At least compared to the drysuit market overall? Perhaps similarly small to the cave market?

I think there are a fair number of drysuit divers who don't penetrate caves or wrecks (the entire West Coast for the most part as well as most quarry divers) but I think it is convenient to have pockets on a drysuit for anyone. In many cases I don't even use my pockets however when I'm shore diving and I use a BP/W with no pcokets. I wouldn't buy one without pockets although my first drysuit didn't have pockets.

No pee valve is not that big a deal until you are underwater for more than an hour. I don't have a pee valve on my drysuit. I have a healthy bladder which can wait for an hour above water as well as below water.

I do agree though that there doesn't seem to be much real need for this suit. It's more or less a solution where there isn't really a problem.

Edited by gcbryan, 06 November 2007 - 09:06 PM.

[PerroneFord]

No pee valve is not that big a deal until you are underwater for more than an hour. I don't have a pee valve on my drysuit. I have a healthy bladder which can wait for an hour above water as well as below water.

I'm going to toss this out as a separate thread, mayte a poll, but are your dives typically less than an hour? My typical dives are 50-90 minutes and I am really holding most of my buddies back. Common dive times for my buddies is anywhere from 90 minutes to 4 hours.

[diverdeb]

[quote name='PerroneFord' date='Nov 6 2007, 08:38 PM' post='199256']
[/quote]

Come on now! Guys get ONE advantage. Let us have the P-Valve!
[/quote]

Uhmm, I'm a girl and I have a P-valve on my drysuit.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I like a suit that has it all: pockets, tough exterior, pee valve, the works. My pockets are pretty loaded. For example:

In my left pocket, I carry a signal flare in a waterproof case, a safety reel, a second stage that I can plug into my rebreather tanks or even offboard tanks, a Dive Alert (air horn), a spare bolt for my pee valve, a spare double ender, and an emergency signal mirror.

In my right pocket, I carry an emergency slate (that I can send to the surface with a message when attached to a lift bag), a second flare in a waterproof case, emergency bail out tables, wetnotes, and a backup light.

I don't always carry everything on every dive. For example, I won't carry the flares on a cave dive; I keep those for open ocean diving. I could not live without nice, large pockets on my drysuit.

[gcbryan]

No pee valve is not that big a deal until you are underwater for more than an hour. I don't have a pee valve on my drysuit. I have a healthy bladder which can wait for an hour above water as well as below water.

I'm going to toss this out as a separate thread, mayte a poll, but are your dives typically less than an hour? My typical dives are 50-90 minutes and I am really holding most of my buddies back. Common dive times for my buddies is anywhere from 90 minutes to 4 hours.

Yes, 1 hour or less is the norm for me. If I were to do longer dives, which I'm not interested in, I would definitely have a pee valve.

I much prefer two dives to one longer dive.