Jump to content

  • These forums are for "after booking" trip communications, socializing, and/or trip questions ONLY.
  • You will NOT be able to book a trip, buy add-ons, or manage your trip by logging in here. Please login HERE to do any of those things.

Photo

Should Nitrox be taught in AOW


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#31 Bubble2Bubble

Bubble2Bubble

    Arkansas HH Planner

  • SD Partners
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Location:De Queen, AR
  • Gender:Male
  • Board Status:Surface Interval Starting 08/2009
  • Cert Level:Rescue Diver, Medic, Emergency First Responder, CPR/AED-Oxygen, Dry Suit, Nitrox.
  • Logged Dives:500+ Studing for my DM

Posted 21 February 2008 - 06:50 AM

Parrotman

So, to answer your question, Yes, it should be included. Actually one step better would be to include it in the OW certification.
If the dive agencies are truly advocating safer diving they should be making this course as available as possible to the largest audience possible.

Exactly! I think that Nitrox , Dive Ops and Resorts are heading for a "Perfect Storm"
It will only take a few bent divers with some smart lawyers to sue the insurance companies because the Dive Ops and Resorts did not provide that safest possible technology aka Nitrox for there customers. Please don't laugh out loud over this because you all have seen what happened in the Auto Industry over seat belts and the laws that require there use. Back to Nitrox, Its possible that in the not so far off future that Nitrox will be the Norm and you will probably need to take an 21 percent Air Cert to dive on only air. Its hard to find people/divers talking about this subject in magazines or on the Internet and I really appreciate everyone's opinion on this subject.
Dive into Life and Live for Diving!
no trees were harmed while posting any of my messages,
however a significant number of electrons were inconvenienced.

Buy Lawn Mower and Chain Saw Parts at...
Amazon.com

#32 ASDmike

ASDmike

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:AOW, EAN
  • Logged Dives:700ish

Posted 21 February 2008 - 09:03 AM

I think that Nitrox , Dive Ops and Resorts are heading for a "Perfect Storm"

I think so too, although I am not sure how it will go or how fast it will come. I posted the idea on another thread that maybe resorts and non-tech charters would go beyond "free Nitrox" (as the RedSea boats offer) and add a surcharge for choosing to dive air rather than Nitrox.

I say this since on a recent liveaboad experience, I felt everyone was strongly encouraged to dive Nitrox (it was $100 for the week, all 17 Nitrox divers had 20-27 fills). Another safety/comfort margin: myself as well as another Nitrox Sucking Dog were given 100s at no-charge. They also sold training to the only 3 divers that were not certified- I believe they discounted their normal fees too. Only one diver opted out of diving Nitrox so he could go beyond the EAN MODs (he had a Nitrox certification).

One more thing to consider in automatically teaching AOW divers Nitrox training. I will never again dive "air" in a place that is doing almost all Nitrox fills without analyzing my tank before every dive. At one time, someone used the air diver's tank to do a calibration test and discovered he may have not received only air fills. The tank was reading four points high.
'06 - Fireworks on History, Singles Fantasy
'07 - Ancient Egypt/Red Sea Liveaboard
'08 - Bonaire Singles Week ...In STYLE!!!

#33 JimG

JimG

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 470 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor Trainer
  • Logged Dives:Not enough!

Posted 21 February 2008 - 03:25 PM

Personally, I think the relative safety of diving Nitrox over diving Air is way over-blown by the dive industry, and I can't imagine a situation where "failure to provide Nitrox" could be viewed as the proximate cause of a diving accident.

Most of the potential injury modes for Nitrox are the same as they are for Air. Nitrogen saturation is still a concern with Nitrox, and you can still get bent diving Nitrox, just like you can diving Air. The most serious (and potentially life threatening) types of diving injuries (expansion injuries - AGE, Mediastinal Emphysema, etc) are also still a valid concern with Nitrox - if you hold your breath on Nitrox, you will get hurt just as badly as if you hold your breath on Air. I would guess that those circumstances are the most common cause of dive accidents by far, and all the Nitrox in the world won't make up for that. OxTox is obviously more of a concern with Nitrox, but you can tox on Air, too (just not as shallow as on Nitrox).

The primary thing that "keeps us safe" as divers is the manner in which we manage our diving. We have complete control over all the operational parameters associated with a dive - we can control how deep we go, how long we stay, how fast we ascend, whether and how long we do our safety stops, etc. And in the strictest sense, it is ultimately our own choice as to whether we go diving at all - no one forces us to do it. We can terminate a dive early if we have safety concerns about the plan or conditions, or we can even choose to "thumb the dive on the dock". None of that has anything to do with the choice of breathing gas.

In other words, there is still an NDL with Nitrox, and we still have to observe it, and we still have to make a slow controlled ascent to prevent injuries like DCS, just like we do with Air. And those aspects of our dives are totally and completely under our control, no matter "what's in the tank".

I suppose there is some theoretical or anecdotal evidence to suggest that Nitrox might be safer, based on a "slower effective ascent rate", or breathing a higher O2 mix at your safety stop, or something similar. However, I am not aware of any research that has shown this to provide any measurable increase in diving safety (that doesn't mean there isn't any, just that I am not aware of it - would be interested to read it if there were). There is so much more potential risk associated with poor diving practices, that it hardly seems worthwhile to single out the choice of breathing gas as the primary contributing factor to a dive injury (at least at recreational depths - deep dives are a different story). It's kind of like me worrying about my very slight astigmatism, which my eye doctor doesn't even bother to correct for because I am so extremely near-sighted. The cost/benefit differential is just not big enough to justify it, and if I lose my contacts or glasses, I will be so blind from that that the astigmatism won't even matter at that point.

That's not to say that I am against Nitrox. In point of fact, I dive it every chance I get. I also advocate its use for other divers (within depth and training limits, etc), every chance I get. I honestly think that everyone should get Nitrox training as soon as they are certified. I feel this way because I believe it is a far superior choice of gas for most recreational profiles - if you want more bottom time at a given depth, or longer repetitive dives, or less decompression stress, then Nitrox is a much better choice for that than Air. But Nitrox by itself won't make me any "safer" as a diver - only I can do that.

I do like the idea of charter operators charging more for air divers, though - I would totally be in support of that (as long is it was used to subsidize Nitrox diving for me :thankyou:).

-JimG
Will DIR for food!

#34 JimG

JimG

    People are starting to get to know me

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 470 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Gender:Male
  • Cert Level:Instructor Trainer
  • Logged Dives:Not enough!

Posted 10 March 2008 - 12:06 PM

Well, I thought I would add a follow-up on this topic, since I had an opportunity to teach my first combined AOW/Nitrox course over this past weekend. I had two students - one who got AOW certified on a trip last December, and another who will be completing AOW dives on a trip next week. Both students were people that I certified OW within the last year.

The schedule was a 3-hour lecture on Friday evening, followed by two six hour sessions on Sat/Sun - each session was 3 hours lecture, 3 hours pool. We spent Friday evening talking about Nitrox - Physics, Physiology, gas laws and calculations (PPO2, MOD, Best Mix, etc), and then equipment issues (gas analysis, tank markings, oxygen cleaning, etc). Saturday lecture was spent on Dive Planning (EAD, Nitrox tables, air consumption calculations, gas planning and reserves, etc), and then Buoyancy Control (proper weighting, horizontal trim, propulsion techniques, etc). Sunday's lecture included material on dive lights and protocols, reels and SMBs, and then a written exam.

For Saturday's pool session, I had the students work on some basic buoyancy and weighting, and then practice a few rescue drills - air sharing and unconscious diver rescues. They also worked on their propulsion techniques, and did a simple air consumption test. Sunday in the pool was spent working on toxing diver rescues, guidelines and reels, SMB deployment, and then some more air sharing drills in a long hose configuration. I videotaped all the pool sessions, and then we went back to the classroom afterwards so the students could see how they were doing.

Everyone was pleased with how the class went (both myself and the students). The timelines and topics that I included seemed to be a good fit, and the course ran pretty much on the schedule that I had anticipated. Both students enjoyed it, and they both said they got a lot out of it. The guy who had already done AOW said he thought the class would work well whether you took AOW before or after, which was good to hear since that was one of my major concerns (i.e. did not want to duplicate too much material from AOW).

It still remains to be seen whether this is a "generally marketable" course, but overall I thought it went really well for the inaugural effort, and I am looking forward to teaching it again.

-JimG
Will DIR for food!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users