32 replies to this topic

[shadragon]

OK, so in the "Rebreather Myths" thread I asked what would be the path to go from a Recreational Diver to being qualified on a CCR. I asked the question with the (long term) view of eventually getting training on a rebreather. I got a few answers, but wanted to split away from that thread to not distract. So my question here is assuming you have all the recreational standards for your particular training organization, what do you need to do to get to the point of being able to take a rebreather course? What courses do you need to do, what gear do you need and how much does it cost?

The reason I am looking at this is for the Oriskany which has the flight deck at 130 and the hanger deck is 140 - 160 feet. It is the only dive beyond 130 feet that has grabbed my attention. Would love to do that dive one day on CCR. The sticking point is I did not want to replace all my gear (again) for the training only to get qualified and end up changing it once more to the CCR rig. Lets face it, it is not cheap even for recreational gear. So I wanted to find a roadmap that I could follow with A) Minimal expenses. B) Solid training. C) Fulfil the requisites for CCR training. I cannot be the first person to want this so I ask the question.

I spoke with a PADI instructor who had the DSAT Standards book for the TEC Deep Diver course. By their standard not only is redundancy needed, but doubles (70 cf minimum, with larger capacity recommended) and isolator valve are mandatory. There are twelve progressive training dives from pool work to open water to simulated DECO to DECO dives. This qualification lets you go to 50 meters / 165 feet in DECO diving with enriched air. This would seem to fulfil the Advanced Nitrox portion for CCR. Diving below 165' requires the DSAT Tec Trimix Diver Course. The equipment list is the same for both courses. No idea as to the costs for the course(s).

So what other agencies are out there and how do they do it? I should be clear I am not promoting the above. I am presenting it to start a discussion. I don't want an Agency A is better than Agency B argument. I am just trying to understand the process and who knows Agency B may be the best choice for me.

[diverdeb]

Simon, PM sent with SSI info on tech classes.

[shadragon]

I took this picture of my steel tank and pony as I usually set it up.



AL 30 Pony is side mounted on my steel 120 with an independent BC strap and has a MK 16 reg with 5 foot hose. Steel tank has a MK 25 reg. BC is a Knighthawk.

This just in: "Generally, the DSAT TecDeep program is regarded as being the equivalent of the TDI Advanced Nitrox, Decompression Procedures and Extended Range courses. The TDI program (3 in total) gives a little more max depth, at 55m (180ft)."

[diverdeb]

Have you considered mounting that pony upside down so you could reach the valve? Just a thought.

[VADiver]

You want to go CCR just to dive the Oriskany?

With the proper training you can do her with dbl AL 80's or dbl ST 130's (along with the other equipment needed for deco dives). As for the gas...you'll need trimix.

Why do you have a pony mounted to your tank? Just get a set of dbl AL 80's and have all the redundancy you'll need.

Edited by VADiver, 03 July 2008 - 01:13 PM.

[shadragon]

Have you considered mounting that pony upside down so you could reach the valve? Just a thought.

Thought about it, but I keep it on all the time. Only reason I would have to turn if off would be for a major leak and the dive is over if that occurs.

You want to go CCR just to dive the Oriskany?

With the proper training you can do her with dbl AL 80's or dbl ST 130's (along with the other equipment needed for deco dives). As for the gas...you'll need trimix.

Why do you have a pony mounted to your tank? Just get a set of dbl AL 80's and have all the redundancy you'll need.

Nope, I want to dive the O (140 - 160 foot range) and be able to operate for longer durations in the 10 - 130 foot range. CCR seems the most cost effective way to get to that level. Going the open circuit tec route seems awful expensive by way of equipment, courses and fills. At $100 - 200 for trimix fills for a pair of doubles, 35 tank fills equals a CCR purchase price. CCR may have a steeper purchase price, but cheaper long term operating costs. Plus, copious amounts of gas.

The S120 tank I have is equal to 1.75 of an AL80 (With the 10% allowed overfill that comes up to 1.925). The pony gives me another .375 of an AL80 in case of emergency. It is mounted as it is more stable in that position, is streamlined, does not get in the way and I have never had anyone give me a good enough reason why I would hand away my secondary air source to anyone. It is there exclusively as a bailout bottle to get me, or a buddy to the surface on no stop rec dive profiles. I have used it twice in 150 dives. Once for myself (in Grenada) and once for a buddy who was OOA on a scallop dive at 84 feet. I do love my little pony. I know it is not proper for technical profiles and I am in no way suggesting that.

Hope that clarifies things.

[ScubaDadMiami]

CCR can be a tremendous tool for deeper wreck diving. You'll love it.

[diverdeb]

But Simon, what if you forget to turn the pony on and you need it? I know you think that will never happen, but it could. If it was upside down, then you have access to the valve. Not criticizing, just thinking.

(Hey, I won't even tell you all the things I've forgotten that I never thought I would )

[shadragon]

But Simon, what if you forget to turn the pony on and you need it? I know you think that will never happen, but it could. If it was upside down, then you have access to the valve. Not criticizing, just thinking.

Fair point. I will try it that way next time.

[KeithT4U]

I always wondered why ponys were mounted upside down. IT makes sense thinking of it a new way. It is amazing the things you can learn when you listen, or read.


Keith

[Yohanson]

I took this picture of my steel tank and pony as I usually set it up.



AL 30 Pony is side mounted on my steel 120 with an independent BC strap and has a MK 16 reg with 5 foot hose. Steel tank has a MK 25 reg. BC is a Knighthawk.

This just in: "Generally, the DSAT TecDeep program is regarded as being the equivalent of the TDI Advanced Nitrox, Decompression Procedures and Extended Range courses. The TDI program (3 in total) gives a little more max depth, at 55m (180ft)."

My TDI Deco Procedures card says Qualified to conduct dives for planned staged decompression to 150 fsw/45msw. My TDI Advanced Nitrox card just says Qualified in the use of 22% to 100% oxygen. I might be wrong but TDI's beginning trimix allows you to dive to 180 feet on air and 200 feet on mix (I'm certain of the trimix depth).

Have you ever thought about slinging your pony bottle as a stage bottle? There are some benifits to that including being able to remove it or to fix a problem with the first stage. I had an issue with my O2 bottle yesterday where the first stage loosened up. I had charged the bottle before starting the dive but when I went to deploy it, oxygen started pouring out of it when I turned the valve on. I had to tighten the first stage and then all was well.

[georoc01]

Sorry Shad if I am hijacking your thread, but I have a similar interest in that we are talking about doing the Odyssey Liveaboard in Chuck Lagoon in January of 2011, and the boat supports tec diving of the wrecks, including manifolded doubles. They require Extended Range Diver to do them..

http://www.trukodyssey.com/

So now I am trying to chart a course to get there to be able to take full advantage of what is offered on the boat. It seems like the first step is to move to a BP/Wing and prep for diving doubles.

[Bubble2Bubble]

Simon,
Your quest to become CCR trained and equipped is an awesome goal and I hope your dreams come true. In my own experience I have found that the more technical my diving gets the less buddies I have to go diving with because they cant afford the equipment, so you might find yourself diving solo alot which is not really a good idea no matter what your experience level might be. I highly recommend diving the MightyO tho, I was able to cruse the flight deck for a few minutes but found that there is alot to see just inside the tower/bridge area. Back on point...You might want to find and secure other divers with the same interest as yours before shelling out alot of bucks on equipment, but if you find a group of divers that have the same experience and equipment that your heading towards then You Go For It Simon

thats my 2 psi


Mike

[diverdeb]

Sorry Shad if I am hijacking your thread, but I have a similar interest in that we are talking about doing the Odyssey Liveaboard in Chuck Lagoon in January of 2011, and the boat supports tec diving of the wrecks, including manifolded doubles. They require Extended Range Diver to do them..

http://www.trukodyssey.com/

So now I am trying to chart a course to get there to be able to take full advantage of what is offered on the boat. It seems like the first step is to move to a BP/Wing and prep for diving doubles.

George, If Extended Range is your goal, then yes I would say go ahead and move to a bp/wing set up. My best advice from my personal experience is to go ahead and get the gear need in the beginning. It's all about consistency. I didn't do that and started my initial training in some borrowed gear. It seemed like every time I changed something I was starting over again. Ideally I think it's best to dive the same basic set up whether you're diving doubles or a single tank if you can, including a long hose, etc. I haven't done that because I teach recreational too, but I think it's best if you can.