113 replies to this topic

[Geek]

And what on this blue earth would I as a solo diver need a seven-foot hose for?

...and I have actually adopted a couple of ideas from the DIR book - but only after trying it out and determining that it makes sense for me.

Believe it or not, I find the 7ft hose wraps more cleanly around my body than anything else. Even less of an entanglement hazard than the former 5ft hose I used. I'm also a bigger guy than most, so the 5ft hose might make more sense for someone with less girth.

As to borrowing ideas from DIR or other systems, I think you've hit on the major point of DIR. And that is to actually THINK about what you are doing, and make conscious choices that work best for you. That is a VERY DIR concept.

The DIR system of unified team encompasses far more than a good buddy. And in your case, I think some of the other pieces might be of great benefit. In ocean diving, the captain becomes an integral part of that unified team. Someone who knows your plan, where you are going, how long you should be down there, and when to come looking if you don't surface. It extends to families who should expect calls from you when you return safely from your dive. It could extend to the local chamber if you are going to be doing some more difficult dives. DAN might well be a part of your unified team in some cases. For those of us doing some more technical dives, the local law enforcement office, as well as our surface support become part of that unified team.

So even as a solo diver, you are not an island out there man. I have a few friends who solo. Fortunately, most are quite experienced, and have spent adequate time preparing themselves for what they are doing. If you choose to dive that way, who am I or anyone else to tell you what to do? All I ask is that you please try to do it as safely as you can.

Fair enough?

"THINK about what you are doing". That's fair advice. Now all you have to do is convince the DIR zealots to follow it!

Seriously that bit of advice is right out of the book, and is the one thing in the book that none of the zealots are doing. If you think about something and come to a conclusion different than DIR then you get an argument, or worse, in return.

It's time for the DIR crowd to recognize that other divers do give some thought to their gear. Granted there are plenty of divers who just buy whatever their LDS recommends, but those folks are not reading this thread. Mountainminnow thought about what he was doing when he came up with his octo configuration that got us going here. I don't agree with it, but he didn't come up with that configuration without giving it some thought. I also suspect he'll think about it again, and change it based on what he learns either from others or from experience in the water.

The advice to "think" carries the assumption that the other side of the conversation isn't thinking. I "think" the DIR crowd should "think" about how smart it is to tell the rest of us to "think". (Pun intended.)

[shadragon]

Diving in warm water is different than diving in cold. Diving in wrecks is different than underwater photography on a reef. No two dives are ever the same, even in the same location. So flexibility in choosing your gear and how you rig it has to be present. That is for recreational diving because what works for me up here ice diving in Canada may not work for someone doing a 30' reef dive in Belize. Technical diving requires a different discipline. People use DIR so they know where things are on their partners at depth. The delay in figuring out how a hose is routed in an emergency at 300 feet could kill someone. It has merit in that it works for the people who choose to use it.

It should have been called Doing It Consistently or Doing It Methodically, but that does not work when abbreviated. If you follow the DIR discipline and it works for you and what you do, great. However, if you don't use DIR while recreational diving, it does not mean you are DIW.

[PerroneFord]

If you remember, my advice to Mountainminnow was to think the solution through. This is not the same as "not thinking". Case in point:

Friday night, I was doing a pool session with two newer open water divers. I monitored as they set up their gear, and watched them put thought into the gear they were assembling. They then got in the pool. I noticed that one diver had a configuration that was going to make it EXTREMELY difficult for her to share gas with an OOA buddy. So I made sure during pre-dive, that we did full checks and safety drills. When it came time for her to donate, I watched how it went. She realized that her configuration was not only sub-optimal, but could in fact be dangerous. She removed herself from the pool, and reconfigured her gear to eliminate the problem.

Now that girl is not DIR. Though she has just started reading some DIR stuff. But without prompting from me, she sorted out the problem BEFORE the practice dive realizing that it would cause a problem in a real scenario. I gave her a HUGE pat on the back for that.

Yes Mountainminnow gave thought to the configuration. But I think we as a community of divers owe it to that person, and people like them to say hey, hang on. It might be better if you tried XYZ. Or have you you thought about how this setup might not work in the following scenario, and here's a better way.

Even among the DIR zealots, protocols change regularly. Several of the more advanced teams and groups come up with changes to the system that work in their environment, it's floated to the community, and either adopted widely, or adopted in certain circumstances. Our pre-dive safety check is a common one that changes from time to time. And usually from someone making a mistake, or a situation arising from a problem.

I suppose it seems very arrogant to tell another diver to think about their solution. Especially, if you are not into technical diving. But in the technical community (deco, cave, wreck-pen, DIR) it's a constant. Cave divers think nothing of coming over to another diver and making suggestions about their gear or technique. I suppose it doesn't play as well in the recreational community. I suppose more sensitivity could be shown in that regard.

So I apologize to mountainminnow if my comments were seen as callous, or arrogant. I try very hard not to come off that way, but I know I do sometimes.

And I thank Geek for pointing out that my comments could be seen that way.

[FritzCat66]

Believe it or not, I find the 7ft hose wraps more cleanly around my body than anything else. Even less of an entanglement hazard than the former 5ft hose I used. I'm also a bigger guy than most, so the 5ft hose might make more sense for someone with less girth.

I may try it then. But I'm not entirely sold on even the five-footer yet, what I do know is that I would like to a) reroute my primary hose underarm instead of over-shoulder, and b) go with the new flex hose like I put on my pony. In so doing, I will probably take a cue from DIR and eliminate my beloved reg swivel as well (shouldn't need it with the flex hose anyway, so it would be just another potential point of failure). I've only read one criticism of the flex hoses over on ScubaBoard, and that was from a guy who scooters a lot and said the flex hose flops around too much when scootering due to it being so flexible. Don't know what the DIR guys think of the flex hoses, but they seem to work for me, I just wish they also made HP hoses in flex.

As to borrowing ideas from DIR or other systems, I think you've hit on the major point of DIR. And that is to actually THINK about what you are doing, and make conscious choices that work best for you. That is a VERY DIR concept.

Well, that may be one of the only areas where DIR and Solo intersect then... LOL! Since I'm focussing on solo, I also think through every single piece of gear I have, trying out different configurations to find the one that's most intuitive and obvious for me... I think that's perhaps the single most important thing a solo diver should do (aside from getting a redundant air source). But your point about the "team" extending beyond just a buddy is well-taken, and yes, I do inform the captain and the divemaster if I'm intending to go solo. And yes, I have my DAN tag right on the front of my BC.

Mostly for ease of body identification...

Fair enough?

Fair enough... and if you're the same person as the longtime poster on ScubaBoard (and I presume so), then know that I do respect your opinions.

>*< Fritz

[PerroneFord]

We are one and the same.

We are Borg
I am 4 of 5.

[Geek]

If you remember, my advice to Mountainminnow was to think the solution through. This is not the same as "not thinking". Case in point:

Friday night, I was doing a pool session with two newer open water divers. I monitored as they set up their gear, and watched them put thought into the gear they were assembling. They then got in the pool. I noticed that one diver had a configuration that was going to make it EXTREMELY difficult for her to share gas with an OOA buddy. So I made sure during pre-dive, that we did full checks and safety drills. When it came time for her to donate, I watched how it went. She realized that her configuration was not only sub-optimal, but could in fact be dangerous. She removed herself from the pool, and reconfigured her gear to eliminate the problem.

Now that girl is not DIR. Though she has just started reading some DIR stuff. But without prompting from me, she sorted out the problem BEFORE the practice dive realizing that it would cause a problem in a real scenario. I gave her a HUGE pat on the back for that.

Yes Mountainminnow gave thought to the configuration. But I think we as a community of divers owe it to that person, and people like them to say hey, hang on. It might be better if you tried XYZ. Or have you you thought about how this setup might not work in the following scenario, and here's a better way.

Even among the DIR zealots, protocols change regularly. Several of the more advanced teams and groups come up with changes to the system that work in their environment, it's floated to the community, and either adopted widely, or adopted in certain circumstances. Our pre-dive safety check is a common one that changes from time to time. And usually from someone making a mistake, or a situation arising from a problem.

I suppose it seems very arrogant to tell another diver to think about their solution. Especially, if you are not into technical diving. But in the technical community (deco, cave, wreck-pen, DIR) it's a constant. Cave divers think nothing of coming over to another diver and making suggestions about their gear or technique. I suppose it doesn't play as well in the recreational community. I suppose more sensitivity could be shown in that regard.

So I apologize to mountainminnow if my comments were seen as callous, or arrogant. I try very hard not to come off that way, but I know I do sometimes.

And I thank Geek for pointing out that my comments could be seen that way.

Perrone, You are quite tactful compared to many of the DIR types online (or for that matter in person). I am concerned about my own comments to mountainminnow, so I certainly won't criticize you. I really would like to know whether he was serious or someone cracking a joke. Sometimes you just can't tell.

I've already indicated that my experience with DIR zealots has been negative. Scubaboard is one board on which I ceased participating several years ago. I won't have anything to do with ScubaBoard unless I receive a very strong apology from the admins there, which I don't expect at this point.

Edited by Geek, 08 September 2008 - 05:01 AM.

[FritzCat66]

We are Borg
I am 4 of 5.

LOL! Well, that kind of summarizes the difference between a DIR diver and a Solo diver right there, doesn't it? You identify with the Borg, who are incredibly powerful and effective as a cohesive unit. I identify with the Cat, who is wired to function best as a solitary individual. Trying to make us cats work together with others is like, well, herding cats...

>*< Fritz

P.S. Ironically, however, one of my best dive buddies is a techie (mostly-)DIR diver, Hogarthian rig, etc. I think that's because, like any good diver of that category, he's got his act together so I just don't have to worry about him... and it's not in my nature to worry much about a buddy, I'm too busy taking pictures. Also of course when he's diving with me, it's just recreational stuff since I'm not into tech, deco, or penetration diving. So he's well within his comfort zone... and he's usually busy taking pics as well.

[PerroneFord]

Diving together with a buddy who has their *stuff* together is a very comforting feeling. Most of the DIR divers I know could easily pull off diving solo, but the amazing comfort of having a teammate with you who can probably handle ANY emergency that might arise without losing their cool is just a great feeling.

For most divers, running out of air is a primary concern. With a solid buddy, it becomes a minor annoyance. And the DIR folks practice it nearly every dive if not every dive. My DIR buddies and I time ourselves on unannounced OOA drills. We try to stay under 4 seconds. In overheads we actually listen to each other breathe, and we can tell if someone misses a breath or if their breathing pattern changes. And we respond accordingly.

But yea, Borg and cats probably would not make the best combo! LOL!

[hambergler]

I am a cat person, and with cats, resistance is futile. I merely exist to feed, entertain, and clean up after, the cat. My life is complete and Zen.

As far as the "Air2" and octo thing goes, from a training standpoint, I've been in the pool and at the lake several times now, with different dive shops (SSI and PADI), where they use Air2 or equivalents in the pool, then standard octos at the lake, or vice-versa. While the standard line is that it exposes the student to both types of rigs, to my mind it induces confustication and bebotherment, especially as the Air2 or equivalent has more buttons and different configurations (depending on manufacturer) to confuse the student (and even the experienced diver, especially in an adrenaline-infused situation). I've seen students confusing the autoinflator with the deflator with the purge, and then I've seen them not know what the button on the end of the hose does, even after having been briefed. I have always been a fan of the KISS rule, and it especially applies with OW students.

[PerroneFord]

have always been a fan of the KISS rule, and it especially applies with OW students.

And tech divers, and cave divers, and wreck divers, etc., etc., etc.

[Geek]

I am a cat person, and with cats, resistance is futile. I merely exist to feed, entertain, and clean up after, the cat. My life is complete and Zen.

As far as the "Air2" and octo thing goes, from a training standpoint, I've been in the pool and at the lake several times now, with different dive shops (SSI and PADI), where they use Air2 or equivalents in the pool, then standard octos at the lake, or vice-versa. While the standard line is that it exposes the student to both types of rigs, to my mind it induces confustication and bebotherment, especially as the Air2 or equivalent has more buttons and different configurations (depending on manufacturer) to confuse the student (and even the experienced diver, especially in an adrenaline-infused situation). I've seen students confusing the autoinflator with the deflator with the purge, and then I've seen them not know what the button on the end of the hose does, even after having been briefed. I have always been a fan of the KISS rule, and it especially applies with OW students.

While I am not one who says use the same configuration all the time, switching OW students in the middle of the class is likely to cause a bit of confusion. A better move would be to equip half of the class each way, but keep the individual student with the rig he starts with throughout the class. This would expose the students to the variations during the class so they know about the choices before they buy anything while avoiding the overload.

[French Frog]

I don't know about this recommandation for a balanced/unbalanced combo of regulators.
I've read it somewhere (Perhaps on a DIR site ?) but I don't follow it as I don't see any case where a balanced regulator would fail and an none balanced would still work. Damnit if there are situations where I can't use my balanced regulators and may drown, they aren't specifyed on my manuals

I use to wear two 1st and two second stages completely separated, both balanced and reliable (Aqualung Titan lx supreme mostly).
I've took them into the deep, the cold, in caves, at sea, under the ice : never had a failure. I just make sure to service them once a year.

And should ever one of them fail I would still have the same breath quality with the second one, as it is the same regulator... I think that it's not bad to avoid adding some more stress because of a breathing comfort change in an allready potentially stressfull situation (the failure of the primary balanced regulator).

[PerroneFord]

I don't know about this recommandation for a balanced/unbalanced combo of regulators.
I've read it somewhere (Perhaps on a DIR site ?) but I don't follow it as I don't see any case where a balanced regulator would fail and an none balanced would still work. Damnit if there are situations where I can't use my balanced regulators and may drown, they aren't specifyed on my manuals

I use to wear two 1st and two second stages completely separated, both balanced and reliable (Aqualung Titan lx supreme mostly).
I've took them into the deep, the cold, in caves, at sea, under the ice : never had a failure. I just make sure to service them once a year.

And should ever one of them fail I would still have the same breath quality with the second one, as it is the same regulator... I think that it's not bad to avoid adding some more stress because of a breathing comfort change in an allready potentially stressfull situation (the failure of the primary balanced regulator).

Well,

This is a classic example of the enduring power of the written word. Back in the 80s and early 90s, it was suggested in the DIR community to have an unbalanced backup because scootering caused free flows on balanced ones. Regs back then didn't have user adjustable venturis or pre-dive switches.

That said, I have taken my unbalanced reg down to 140ft and it breathed just fine. Any deeper and I'd be adding helium to the mix anyway, and the entire issue would become moot.

[pocahontas]

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

Interesting question - I wonder if there are DAN stats or something somewhere.

The three I experienced went like this:

#1 and #2 were other idiots like me diving a J valve and forgot to flip it
#3 was another idiot like me on a fun dive when we were doing scientific testing of effects of narcosis. He was used to surface-supplied air diving and between that and the narc'ing drills we were doing - he simply forgot. (air goes pretty fast at 160' )

Hmmm....well....I'm sure this will get me yelled at by a bunch of people but have never run out of air nor have any of my buddies but my octo seems to get alot of use nontheless. :-) I won't mention names...... ;-)

[Capn Jack]

I use an inline reg on the BC inflater hose. I like it. It takes up less weight and space in my dive bag. I test it now and then, but I hope to NEVER need to use it. I check my pressure often, as well as those with whom I am diving, including the guide!

I don't dive with people who run out of air. How do you run out of air anyway?????

Interesting question - I wonder if there are DAN stats or something somewhere.

The three I experienced went like this:

#1 and #2 were other idiots like me diving a J valve and forgot to flip it
#3 was another idiot like me on a fun dive when we were doing scientific testing of effects of narcosis. He was used to surface-supplied air diving and between that and the narc'ing drills we were doing - he simply forgot. (air goes pretty fast at 160' )

Hmmm....well....I'm sure this will get me yelled at by a bunch of people but have never run out of air nor have any of my buddies but my octo seems to get alot of use nontheless. :-) I won't mention names...... ;-)

If you have sold your soul to some heathen demon, so you can make air instead of consuming it - it is only fair to share the air generator with others.

Seriously - I enjoyed much longer dives because of your skills as a diver, and your incredible air management - THANKS (I have the yoga videos - so maybe there's hope)