52 replies to this topic

[DiveGeek]

Just because Microsoft releases a patch, doesn't mean you need to install it.

While there are instance of regression bugs in Microsoft's security updates, the instances of such are quite rare. You actually put yourself a a high level of risk by not applying patches or even not applying patches in a timely manner. Several years ago I had an acquaintance who flat-out refused to patch her Windows system. I don't recall which virus de jour infected her system, but I do remember that it exploited an RPC vulnerability (as opposed to an Internet Explorer vulnerability) that was patched quite early on in the virus' lifetime.

I must also point out that anti-virus software alone isn't enough to keep your system bug free. Virus definitions are only updated upon discovery of a virus - a decidedly reactive approach. Microsoft will release patches when the vulnerability is discovered. Despite the rise of zero-day attacks (the virus or worm being discovered in the wild the same time or before Microsoft discovers or becomes aware of the vulnerability) there is usually a time lag between the vulnerability being discovered and an exploit being developed. So applying patches is a much more proactive approach to securing your system.

[peterbj7]

And (as you might have said) it is very important to sanitise your system regularly and fairly frequently. A virus can easily get onto your system before the antivirus software realises what it is AND before MS have developed a suitable patch. I run antivirus software all the time - I think I've chosen a pretty good one - and I'm meticulous about applying MS updates asap, yet periodically I still find viruses have crept onto my system.

One good thing about the development of Win7 is that it pushed XP further into the background. The bad guys aren't going to bother much developing viruses for XP once it's not used much for business systems, so even if MS withdraw support - and to an extent perversely BECAUSE MS support is withdrawn - XP may become a safer system to use.

Someone suggested above that if I don't like Vista then I may not like Win7 either. That was spot on - other than the bloatware that festoons Vista which I am told Win7 has dispensed with, I greatly dislike some aspects of the user interface that MS have seen fit to foist upon us, which I have little doubt are continued into Win7. I was in software and operating system design when DOS was being developed, and some aspects of that annoyed me as being illogical. Much more so with Windows when that came along. But I've learned to live with those. Why MS chose to make arbitrary changes in Vista that had absolutely no functionality but just served to trip up experienced XP users is a mystery to me. Perhaps, and maybe I'm being unduly cynical here but I don't think so, they just wanted to unsettle everyone, to get them out of their comfortable familiar rut, so they then wouldn't object as new ideas were thrown at them.

Well, I've made my decision on a new machine. I already have one XP machine, though it has a hardware fault that means it occasionally gives trouble. I have the Vista machine I'm currently using. So I'm going to buy a Macbook Pro 15", with as much aftermarket RAM as it will take, and gradually transfer my daily operations to that. Once I'm free of dependence on this Vista machine I'll try more radical measures to get it to run XP. Failing that I may put Unix on it, but I really haven't decided whether I'll do that - if I can get it to run XP I'll stick with that.

Thanks guys for the advice.

Incidentally - I still don't know what's different between a 13" Macbook and a 13" Macbook Pro other than the price.....

[ArtRunScuba]

Hurrah for Peter! Great choice. Also look at using Linux if your really want to go wild.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

Just because Microsoft releases a patch, doesn't mean you need to install it.

It doesn't mean that you CAN install it, either! Twice now, I've tried to install the automatic Windows updates on my home PC, and end up having to reset everything to how it was when it left the factory, then re-install all my software. Frustrating!

[Fordan]

Incidentally - I still don't know what's different between a 13" Macbook and a 13" Macbook Pro other than the price.....

Plastic case vs Aluminum.
Pro has a firewire 800 port and an SD card slot.
Pro has a backlit keyboard.
Pro is more configurable - different drives, cpu's, memory.

There are more differences when you move to a larger size.

http://www.apple.com...ok/compare.html

[peterbj7]

OK, I've been studying the various Macs. My thought so far:-

I may be able to live with a 13". A bit of a compromise as it won't be as good for viewing photos & video, but it's an awful lot more transportable, and I do expect to be carrying it around a fair bit.

The key differences between the Macbook and the 13" Pro are:-
* virtually $200 in price
* size of HD (the cheaper machine has a larger drive!)
* material of case - surely polycarbonate in the cheaper machine is much more resistant to the usual minor knocks and scuffs than the aluminum of the more expensive model?
* no SD card slot on cheaper machine - unimportant as I have a separate USB card reader which I have to use for CF cards anyway
* no Firewire connection on cheaper machine - this may be a show stopper, as I shall want to edit streaming video. Does anyone know if I can I get around it with a USB-Firewire adapter?

IF I can get around the firewire problem it seems to me the cheaper model is better all round than the more expensive one. Assuming I don't decide I have to go for 15". There is a major step up in price (50%+).

I am strongly inclined towards the basic machine on the grounds of the case alone. I know what happens to a thin aluminum case when it's carried around, as I've seen it on compact cameras. They look very old very quickly - just as (eg.) iPods do.

Any comments?

[Fordan]

If your video source supports Firewire and not USB, I'm not sure you can assume you'll be able to pull content. I've not heard of a solution for that, although honestly I haven't looked either since my video work is limited and all my Macs have Firewire.

I also prefer the aluminum to the plastic, though I can understand your reluctance.

[peterbj7]

Isn't the aluminum easily scratched and dented?

[PerroneFord]

Just because Microsoft releases a patch, doesn't mean you need to install it.

While there are instance of regression bugs in Microsoft's security updates, the instances of such are quite rare. You actually put yourself a a high level of risk by not applying patches or even not applying patches in a timely manner. Several years ago I had an acquaintance who flat-out refused to patch her Windows system. I don't recall which virus de jour infected her system, but I do remember that it exploited an RPC vulnerability (as opposed to an Internet Explorer vulnerability) that was patched quite early on in the virus' lifetime.

I must also point out that anti-virus software alone isn't enough to keep your system bug free. Virus definitions are only updated upon discovery of a virus - a decidedly reactive approach. Microsoft will release patches when the vulnerability is discovered. Despite the rise of zero-day attacks (the virus or worm being discovered in the wild the same time or before Microsoft discovers or becomes aware of the vulnerability) there is usually a time lag between the vulnerability being discovered and an exploit being developed. So applying patches is a much more proactive approach to securing your system.

I have over 200 installed MS servers, and over 800 desktops. Our patch routine for the desktops requires that we do suitable testing before releasing the patch. On the server side, I run patches for 30 days prior to approving their installation widely.

As for virus protection, there are numerous ways to protect against them. And patching does very little to help. The best way to protect against viruses in the wild is to reduce your footprint on the internet. So put yourself behind both a hardware and a software firewall. Second line of defense is to run one or several good virus protection programs. Third line of defense is to lock down your system files. If people would STOP logging into their machines as the local admin with elevated permissions, most viruses would be stopped dead in their tracks.

I am happy to say that our network has not seen a virus of any kind in over 3 years. Zero. All MS operating systems. All computers with internet access. But we run a tighter ship than nearly any home user would. But some of this is just following basic protocols about keeping things safe.

[Bubble2Bubble]

PerroneFord
It is my professional opinion that those with flaky Windows machines have caused their own issues in 99% of cases. I have supported literally thousands of PCs over the years and never, ever, have our users had some of the issues I hear about from the angry PC users who've migrated to Macs. The problem of course, is that the PC platform will give you all the rope necessary to hang yourself. And many people do.

Peter,
Thank You so much for starting this thread, I have learned more about (my) and other branded computers in these 3 pages than I have learned in 15 years of owning computers. The input from all the SD Members is greatly appreciated !.

I cant remember the brand name of my first computer but it had a 850mb hard drive (thats not a typo) then a E-Machine (junk) Built my own computer.. again (junk) moved on to Gateway for the customer support, then finally ended up with Dell computers PC/Laptop running XP OS.

Edited by Bubble2Bubble, 27 February 2010 - 08:32 AM.

[georoc01]

PerroneFord
It is my professional opinion that those with flaky Windows machines have caused their own issues in 99% of cases. I have supported literally thousands of PCs over the years and never, ever, have our users had some of the issues I hear about from the angry PC users who've migrated to Macs. The problem of course, is that the PC platform will give you all the rope necessary to hang yourself. And many people do.

Peter,
Thank You so much for starting this thread, I have learned more about (my) and other branded computers in these 3 pages than I have learned in 15 years of owning computers. The input from all the SD Members is greatly appreciated !.

I cant remember the brand name of my first computer but it had a 850mb hard drive (thats not a typo) then a I-Machine (junk) Built my own computer.. again (junk) moved on to Gateway for the customer support, then finally ended up with Dell computors PC/Laptop running XP OS.

We would have died for a hard drive that big back in 1986. I think 10MB was more the size. But after having to swap in and out 360k floppies, it was heaven.

[peterbj7]

This thread has been invaluable to me, but then I always expected it would be. The nice thing about SD is that it is largely made up of people who are bright and thoughtful, and who incidentally are divers. The passion and care they use for their diving is probably found in everything they do.

As for me, I won't have made up my mind until I actually pay. It's now definitely going to be a 13" Macbook, but whether that's a basic one (which largely I prefer) or the "Pro" model with the crucial Firewire port remains to be seen. I want to see whether a Firewire port can be added to the basic machine, and if so at what cost. I don't think I can do without one.

On HD sizes, I recall a Toshiba with a 20mb drive, and wonderring how I was ever going to fill it. I took a new job in 1998, and they were very proud of their desktop PCs with removable 2gb drives. Now I routinely slip a USB-powered 1tb drive in my pocket when I go out. I wonder what the norm will be in another 5 years?

[Fordan]

Isn't the aluminum easily scratched and dented?

Meant to post this before, took the picture, then forgot.

My Macbook Pro's about 4 years old; it was the first model of the Macbook Pro released after Apple switched to Intel. Here's the only real damage to it:



The palm rest area is bowed up a bit as well, but that's from me disassembling it to add a bigger hard drive and losing a screw or two. The newer models have much easier to replace hard drives. There are also what appear to be water spots behind the screen, which I've never seen before and have no idea how they got there.

The machine goes everywhere I do: liveaboards, Vegas, Fiji, etc, so it hasn't exactly been coddled.

(and for those who are going to link the liveaboards to the water spots: maybe, but I don't think so. The computer generally wasn't anyplace wet on the boat.)

[peterbj7]

That looks no worse than my 11 month-old Toshiba, which is deteriorating incredibly rapidly.

[secretsea18]

A bunch of excellent posts here.


For what it's worth, (and I am no computer geek), I LOVE my new WIN 7 laptop. I am soon to go from Win7home to Win7 pro, so that I can still use my XP based CS4 and Lightroom2. There is no way that I would pay that out just to switch platforms. The Win 7 opens exceedingly fast, and I can not be happier. After using my Aspire One netbook for the last 2 1/2 weeks on my annual mission/dive trip to Philippines, I am expecting to upgrade that OS to win 7 from XP (something I did not think I would do) because of the time it took to do image management.

I'll say it again ..... I Win 7!