52 replies to this topic

[rkymtwy]

I purchased my 1st MacBook Pro 2 years ago. I won't go back to a PC. All of the reasons are listed above. For photo editing I use IPhoto which comes with the Mac OS. Id you do video if also has IDvd, which I haven't used since I don't have a video camera. And not to mention the two finger scroll on the touchpad , one of my favorite features, but the list goes on beyond that. Don't really have to worry about virus, worms, etc (yet) since most of those are written to the PC platform. Yes they cost more but once you make the change you won't regret it. I also got mine from MacMall. I have to admit I'm on the Apple bandwagon, MacBook, IPhone, IPod.....and can't wait to play with the IPad.

Edited by rkymtwy, 06 February 2010 - 10:55 AM.

[DiveGeek]

I need to start off this post by stating that it is not my intent to fan the fire of the Mac vs. Windows debate. Whichever platform you prefer is what you prefer - it's almost a religious debate. However, it frustrates me to hear that people must reboot their Windows computers multiple times a day. That is certainly not normal behavior, and it frustrates me even more that such behavior is accepted as normal. End rant, and I will return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic.

I detest Vista

Peter, I must ask why this is so. It's pertinent to the conversation because Win7 is what is called a 'dot' release, as opposed to a new version of the OS (Vista is version 6 whereas Win7 is 6.1. Likewise Windows 2000 was version 5 and XP 5.1). Win7 is quite similar to Vista so if there is a feature of Vista that you detest in Win7 my suspicion is that your experience will be similarly unpleasant.

Win7 acceptable or will I still want to go back to XP?

A couple of points here: 1) My suspicion is that XP won't be around much longer, ie., Microsoft will drop support for XP in the next 12 – 18 months. What that means is that they will stop releasing security updates (patches) for XP and the anti-virus (AV) vendors will no longer produce virus definitions for the XP version of the AV engine. My recommendation here purely from a security perspective would be to go with Win7.

2) If you purchase a new laptop bundled with either OS (XP or Win7) you are going to be saddled with a tremendous amount of crap software that does nothing but impede the functionality of the OS and diminish your user experience. This point is the source of all the poor user experiences with the Windows OS since day 1. When your shiny new laptop arrives your job has just begun, and you have 2 paths you can choose: either go through Add/Remove Programs (now called Programs and Features in Vista/Win7) and remove nearly everything you see, or you can wipe the hard drive and reinstall the OS. Either way, it's not an easy task and it requires that you know a fair amount about what you're doing. This has been an on-going problem of which the OEMs are aware, but each piece of 'crapware' represents $$ to the OEM so there really isn't any incentive for them not to pre-install it. There was a point when Dell was allowing you to order a computer (laptop or desktop) minus the crapware for an additional fee ($10 – 15 IIRC). I haven't been on Dell's site for quite some time and don't know if they still offer that option.

Anyone use Windows 7 yet?

I have been using Win7 for the past 6 – 7 months, and I quite like it. I also used Vista for the 2 years prior and was fortunate not to run into the evil copy issue that plagued that version until SP1. However, I must admit that I felt that the learning curve jumping from XP to Vista was unrealistically high regarding User Account Control (you may know it as the annoying prompts that interrupted you anytime you wanted to do something that required admin authority). UAC has been highly refined and is MUCH less obtrusive in Win7. The only Win7-specific issue of which I am aware is an unconfirmed report that battery life is significantly reduced on a laptop running Win7 vs. the same laptop running Vista. Microsoft is investigating this report but has not come up with anything conclusive.

To sum up, purchasing a new laptop is much more painful than it needs to be due to all the crapware the OEMs pre-install on their computers. From that perspective there is no difference between the OSs. However, if you wind up using XP after Microsoft ceases supporting it, you will be left vulnerable to any exploits subsequently discovered in that OS.

Edited by DiveGeek, 06 February 2010 - 11:51 AM.

[damselfish]

I have 3 mac's at my house that are all in sync. Don't have the software or compatability with some things but have had mac for about 8 yrs and never had a virus or any trouble at all.
Unfortunately I bought a new droid phone that's not as smooth as an iphone would have been with it but I'm on verizon.
If you go mac though make sure to sign up for the classes because it is a lot different than windows.
- D

[damselfish]

Oh and my dive computer the Viper two is not mac compatible but I'm sure they are working on it right, as they are the droid phone. - D

[shadragon]

I agree with Victoria's and Rodney's statements as well. You get what you pay for with both a PC and a Mac.

PC / MAC = Get what you pay for most of the time.

Linux - Free. Never pay for anything again.

There, I said it. Now I will shut up.

[peterbj7]

I'm in the middle of teaching a course at present and don't have time to focus on a reply. But there are some good thoughts above and I will reply.

[ArtRunScuba]

I agree with Victoria's and Rodney's statements as well. You get what you pay for with both a PC and a Mac.

PC / MAC = Get what you pay for most of the time.

Linux - Free. Never pay for anything again.

There, I said it. Now I will shut up.

you don't get what you pay for with linux. You get much more, if you can handle it. I have it at work and love it.

If I was even a bit of a "geek", I would use Linux, the free and true solution for interoperability. But I must admit that I am a bit biased, as I have loaned a lot of paintings to Red Hat, the world's leading Linux company, for five years at their corporate office in Raleigh, and inasmuch as profits from selling my Red Hat stock have financed my diving since 2007 on Galapagos, Bahamas, Australia Far North, Turks and Caicos Explorer Ventures liveaboards plus my recent SD trip to Belize and forthcoming trips to Bonaire, Egypt/Red Sea, and Cozy/Cenotes/Holbox.

[Fordan]

It's not as simple as IT having power... Does anyone know if Macs had the same tools available for IT folks when they first came out? If my memory serves me correctly (and that's iffy) there were tools we (IT) needed that were not available for use on the Mac.

You mean back in 1984? I'm not sure there was a huge difference between IT tools for the Macintosh vs Windows for Workgroups back then, although it does predate my involvement with IT.

Anyway, I have several of each flavor around my house: a Mac desktop, a PC desktop, a linux server, a Mac laptop and a PC netbook. I prefer the Mac for most routine tasks, like surfing and email, and creative endeavors, like photo & video editing. The PC does better at some things; I use mine for gaming and the like. When I do dive travel with my Macbook Pro, I have a windows VMware environment on it primarily to pull data off my dive computer.

One downside to a Mac is that if they break out of warranty, it's painful to get them running again. Then again, Peter's talking about a laptop where that qualification is true Mac or PC.

[lynnlchan]

Before either pcs or Macs - we had CRTs. More then Windows - the tools that we used to connect to the mainframe, write and compile code, design and maintain databases, etc. IBM compatibility - was that the issue? Seems like Architects used Macs while the large corps all went the pc direction. My point is just that it's not some power play by IT. One thing I've figured out in over 20 years of consulting is there's always some logical path for ending up where companies do.

NOW, 'logical' does not equal 'best'.

[uwphotoer]

Long time mac user.... but I don't have any Intel macs.... I'm a low end mac user.

The first thing I can say about a mac is that I am currently using a 10 yr old mac laptop on the internet and running current software on it...... only 1 OS back. The macs tend to work and last longer than a PC.

Second don't forget that the new Intel macs can (if you want) run windows and PC software.......

Spend the money get a mac you will never be happier.

Bye the way, I use Small Dog Electronics for may things I don't get from the apple store, which also has a refurbished section if you got to the bottom of the page and click the sale tag.

My only other comment about Apple is I never buy the latest and greatest..... always wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation and don't upgrade OS's right away....... they tend to make the consumer the beta testers.

[Victoria]

[...] they tend to make the consumer the beta testers.

Microsoft's past masters at enlisting the public as their beta testing department....

[PerroneFord]

*sigh*

It's the same wherever you go.

If you buy an Mac, it works. And it works because you do it Apple's way or no way. This keeps things compatible, simple, and safe. It also keeps things proprietary, expensive, inflexible. For many, that's just fine. For people who'd rather not worry about what their computer is doing, it's fine.

PC's on the other hand are generally less expensive, far more flexible, and far more prone to compatibility issues.

I have been involved in IT professionally for 22 years. I have supported PCs, Macs, Unix machines, and supercomputers (like $50M supercomputers) in that time. I've seen crappy PCs and crappy Macs. And I've seen bulletproof Macs and PCs over that same time.

Now to the point. Windows 7 is a joy. I enjoy it very much and it does what I need. We support a network of over 800 users on Vista 32bit right now. Dell hardware. My primary desktop machine is now 2 years old. It runs Vista 32. It has never been rebooted outside of updates or software installations. EVER. My video editing machine got Windows 7 installed in October. That was the Beta release. I have rebooted it once. I have 3 computers at home. One running XP64 that is 2 years old. One running XP that is now 6 years old and serves files. It has never blue-screened of forced a reboot in 6 years. And my laptop, which I just moved from Win64 to Win7_64 Pro tonight. I use the laptop as my mobile workstation for computer IT support and video editing. It blue screened once when I let it get too hot.

It is my professional opinion that those with flaky Windows machines have caused their own issues in 99% of cases. I have supported literally thousands of PCs over the years and never, ever, have our users had some of the issues I hear about from the angry PC users who've migrated to Macs. The problem of course, is that the PC platform will give you all the rope necessary to hang yourself. And many people do.

If you want a bulletproof Windows machine, do the following.

1. Purchase machine
2. Write down activation code
3. Format hard drive and erase the garbage that comes on them. This is basically how they can be sold as cheaply as they can be sold.
4. Install a clean OS from scratch and use the activation code to get it going again.
5. Patch the system
6. Install your applications
7. LEAVE IT ALONE. Just because Microsoft releases a patch, doesn't mean you need to install it. I have MS based servers that run 24/7 for years without issue doing things this way.


None of this is to say that buying a Mac is a bad idea. It certainly is not. PCs and Macs are BOTH fine platforms. They do require a bit of a mentality shift though going from one to the other.

And as for the question of IT tools on the Mac vs the PC back in the 80s, it wasn't even a consideration. The Macs had nearly nothing in the way if IT tools available. Frankly, the gap is still monstrous between PC and Mac based IT tools.

[WreckWench]

7. LEAVE IT ALONE. Just because Microsoft releases a patch, doesn't mean you need to install it. I have MS based servers that run 24/7 for years without issue doing things this way.

WHAT HE SAID!!!

And that is the best advice EVER!!! Thank you! kamala

p.s. I will be doing JUST THAT! I just got a new pc and we'll be doing just what you suggested this weekend! k