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Should GUE Fundies or Primer be next?


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#31 WreckWench

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:05 PM

Back to Ellen's concerns...

She was made to feel uncomfortable on her last dive trip and she wants to do something about it. As noticed by several of our members...a number of reasons for this conspired together.

1. Sea conditions were not ideal. She did "ok" but not as good as she would have liked. Bouyancy may have been part of it but chances are overall stamina and comfortableness in the water was a bigger part of it. Taking rescue diver would help, as would a peak bouyancy class and possible GUE Fundies or primer. I would also suggest that you work on cardio and some strength training especially in your legs to be a better swimmer.
2. The divers were not friendly to her or at least would not dive with her. Chances are they saw someone they did not know and therefore did not trust and so shunned her. Again you perhaps were unlucky or the conditions were too much for them to feel comfortable about your skills sight unseen. This is one instance where GUE may help you feel ore comfortable in your diving across the board and that may translate to your ability to convey your skills to strangers in a more relevant way. But if currents and sea conditions were the issue...GUE training is predominently for the cave environment not rough ocean conditions. So take this into consideration.
3. It has been mentioned that diving with people you know and trust is critical to the overall experience. After all we are human. I think this experience proves the human connection. A number of people have said they would dive with you ANYTIME and you were a good diver. Perhaps most of the problem lies in the people on this trip being too into themselves to accept you? Or perhaps they saw a beautiful female albiet slightly uncertain of herself when confronted with such harsh behavior by others and drew stereotypical conclusions? Again taking add'l training will give you the confidence to handle your own more readily in all circumstances INCLUDING diving with strangers. I would even suggest solo training AFTER doing peak bouyance, rescue and possible fundies or primer training.
4. I would also take into consideration the personal and human element more on future trips. Leaving your roomie or dive buddy to the luck of the draw can be a crap shoot as you have found out. And while I would like to think that our trips are perfect in this realm...I now know from you that your first SD experience was not as friendly as your second one. I would say that even our least friendly experiences are MUCH MORE FRIENDLY then the trip you just took.

So pick your battles and take all variables into consideration including the people, the location, the conditions AS WELL AS improving your diving skills.

I hope this thread has helped you. This site is full of good, kind, friendly and helpful people who consider you to be part of our family. We hurt when others have hurt you and we'll do anything to protect our fellow family members of which we truly consider you to be. And we'd love for you to go diving with us again sometime. If you can take time off in Nov. my husband aka OTWDiver would be very happy to help you with either peak bouyancy or solo or an entry level tech class if that is something you'd be interested in. Do choose your instructor wisely...its the 2nd most important decision you'll make right after deciding to take the next training endeavor.

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#32 WreckWench

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:49 PM

Kate thank you for the kind words. I would like to think that we all strive to be better divers and to understand other training philosophies. By doing so we broaden our horizons and find ways to improve our diving knowledge and skills. This board gives people the chance to do that and our members have worked hard to ensure this exchange can take place in a positive and valuable manner. A quick search on this site will reveal just as many people who are GUE/DIR who misunderstand other diving philosophies and protocols as those who misunderstand GUE/DIR diving. Passion, enthusiasm and zealousness abound on all sides of this proverbial fence. The truth is that different types of diving will require divers to adapt diving in different ways. There is no *one way* for all types of diving in all types of diving conditions. GUE was formed for the caving community and the diving they were doing. However anytime someone is singularly focused on *one way* to do things or dogmatic...you will invite controversary.

Having said that, I have had some GUE/DIR training. I like many if not most aspects about it. I did not continue the training for several reasons one of which being that diving a team concept was not realistic for me. Staying in complete and masterful flat trim is difficult in a single tank set up and diving doubles is extremely challenging in the locales we go diving in. Switching to trimix to dive over 100 ft dives is also not practical for the diving I do. Note I am not arguing the rationale of the decision and do not suggest others do either...I am simply saying that it is not practical where i go diving.

Ultimately I would of had to choose the GUE approach and modify my diving in order to be able to dive fully to the agency's intent. OR I could accept all the aspects that made sense to me and were also practical to my choice to lead dive trips all over the world in a variety of diving locales. I chose the latter just as I chose to receive training under several agencies/organizations. I wanted to discover the best of the best that each agency offered and then accept that while made the most sense for me.

I do take offense when someone of any training agency especially someone with a fraction of the dives that I have tells me that if I don't do something this way or that way that I will die. So do others. I choose to blow it off considering the source...usually an insecure person with a subconscience need to be *right* and part of the *cool kids*. They *need* to be able to be *right* and tell others they are wrong. Being able to say you will *die* just makes it that much more exciting. Sadly as I mentioned before, it *seems* that GUE/DIR draws a fair number of these types of people and they relish being one of the *cool kids* but often at the risk of giving their beloved agency a bad name. And it is very frustrating to those who like yourself work hard to give the agency a good name by being the best diver they can be skill wise and professional wise.

So none of us should take it personally when someone suggests something different to our way of thinking. And we should not let other people's ignorance steal or hurt our love for this sport. And we should not stoop to their level...it just makes it harder for others to recognize the real idiot. ;)

And for the record...if Ellen is still reading this...all the technical dive training in the world does not help my ability to dive in current or rough sea conditions. THAT comes from experience like you got in Socorros and better endurance training. ;)

Ok time to catch a flight... kamala

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
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#33 scubajunkie6

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:05 PM

Focusing only on Ellen's concerns, my first reaction/reply is to encourage you to go back to places you've visited before that you really enjoyed and "get back in the water" so to speak. Ditto with the other comments on your comfort...I've dove on 2 trips with you and enjoyed your company. If there is a dive crew member somewhere that you enjoyed, then go re-visit that person. When I log my dives, I try to include comments about the boat service, I'll name someone in particular who I thought did a great job, etc. and if the site included some of my favorite things to see (drumfish, eels, indigo hamlets, frogfish, etc (so many things!), then I wouldn't mind going back again to that site.

As for more training, if you want to take it, then do so! If you just want to enjoy some relaxing recreational diving, then pick some places that were "easy" dives and so some good meditation in the water...the ocean is beautiful! Don't let some people on a boat mess with your head...you may never see those guys again.

Just my .2 psi....

#34 peterbj7

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:52 PM

If Ellen comes on the Belize trip I'll be very happy to dive with her, not just for a token dive but for the whole trip. I hope I'm in a position to help her with her skills and confidence.

#35 Jerrymxz

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:51 AM

I've done the Cozumel Halloween trip and it was great. I also did the Cozumel, Cenote and Holbox trip and added the Chichen Itza tour at the end. Those were great trips. Then there was Truk and Palau that were in a league of their own. I'm doing the Caymans trip in October and that looks like it's going to be a good trip as well. I've dove with several of the people signed up for that trip and I'm looking forward to meeting the rest of the SD gang that makes the trip. You stated in your first post that you felt left out. Thatís why I came to SD. Every trip has people who have never done an SD trip and some....experienced :cool2: SDerís, It makes for a great trip. You just donít have those clicks that exclude people from participating. On the trips I go on, after a career in the military, when a couple of us come up with a plan we share it with everyone and see if anyone else want to go along too. I want to include as many people as I can. I enjoy meeting new people who share my love of diving :diver: .

As to the training end of your post. I enjoyed advanced Nitrox course. I was tired but it was well worth it. You learn to plan dives. You learn to dive on a high oxygen concentration to speed up the elimination of nitrogen from your body. And you learn to throw a bag. Maintaining buoyancy skills was also worked on and stressed. These are some of the things I got from that class and why I recommend it to anyone who asks. The gear needed was minimal. I took it in rental single tanks with ďYĒ valves. All I needed was another first stage. It is also the first class where I believe I earned a certification and not just paid for it.

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#36 MNJoe

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 07:50 AM

Ellen,

Sorry to hear you were given the cold shoulder, I am sure that was compounded by the extra neoprene and weight making you feel uneasy too.

I am going to stay away from the Training agency issue. After all my LDS is a PADI shop (we all know that can get some people going), but they also teach tech classes, have brought in a DIR instructer to teach some of their classes, and a handful of the divers that frequent the shop (including th owner) have gone to Florida for GUE cave classes. So I have gotten a well rounded education, by just taking the PADI courses from very experienced instructers. This also leaves me so confused when I hear people put down agencies because I cannot relate to it at all.

What I want to say is;

Don't take the cold shoulder you got personal. I end up showing up for dives alone also, I have gotten the cold shoulder and evil eye from divers when the dive master buddies with them, there point of view is that they are getting saddled with someone they don't know. Whatever, I am there to dive.

As Kamala was getting at, Figure out what it is you want to improve on and take the class that will cover it. Make sure the instructor knows what it is you want to get out of the class, so you can be sure you get it.

Go on SingleDivers.com trips. After all, that is what Kamala does. Gets buddyless divers on trips with buddies.

Look into that Drysuit if you plan on diving in waters that require you to need a lot of neprene. 72 degrees doing multiple dives, for days in a row will definitely cool you down, thick wetsuits flat out suck! You need a lot of weight to sink, then when you are at depth, the suit is compressed any how, so not only do you have to compensate for that weight, you don't have the insulating qualities any more. Or just dive in water you find warm enough to be comfortable, that's not a bad thing.

Keith

"just your average Joe from Minnesota, also known as Keith"


#37 Jay

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:08 PM

I'm only a year late reading this, but I will add a thought or two.
Not new to diving. NASDS in '75. Recert last year thru PADI and nearly all PADI additional certs as I'd not kept up. GUE local group and fundies. I read a lot of misconceptions about GUE based on what one idiot says. There are always people in every sport that think their way is the only way. As Kamala said, consider the source.I dive many times per week in the NW with a variety of divers. Regularly with non GUE divers. More often with the local GUE group cause they are always diving. Skills practice always helps your diving and it's fun IMO. GUE brought a systematic approach to what I wanted to improve. It also brought a community of divers that like that approach. It fit perfectly with how I operate in general. Over the last couple weeks, I dove in key west with a variety of divers. No one person was the same. All were good people and we had fun. Right style or wrong style never came up. We planned our dives, briefed each other on gear configs, buddies up, and had a blast. Much less formal routines than I'm used to, but safe and effective.I read somewhere here that GUE demands a dry suit?. I dove in board shorts and a rash guard for two weeks in the Keys. Freakin water was 89 degrees.My attraction to GUE revolves around: Team diving. Dive planning. Consistency and redundant systems. Focus on constant skills improvement. Fine tuning. Being "still" in the water. And a great group of positive people to dive with.Is GUE exclusive to all of this? Of course not. If you find what you want to get out of diving in one or more of the many organizations out there, pursue it.I can only judge what I have had experience with, and my judgement of one org over the other is just my opinion and really is based on how the materials have been taught. The Ford vs Chevy arguments are lacking, IMO.I think the guy that tells Kamala that she"ll "die" if she doesn't follow his opinion on diving is a fool and should probably have his head held underwater for several minutes. That silliness doesn't represent the GUE org as I know it.
To the OP, my suggestion is that fundies will only serve to increase your abilities and knowledge. Like any training that pushes you to develope skills, it will serve you well. I've never met a person that has come away dissatisfied and I know quite a few. GUE instructor training is pretty rigorous, and there are not a lot of them out there. The local guy here is top shelf and I feel fortunate to get the opportunity.




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