My son's equipment test dive.
#1
Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:33 PM
I couldn't beleive my ears..Without causing any argument.I informed my son later, how wrong that advise was..#1 What happens in a Out of Air Scenario, or a equipment failure,and you have to make a Emergency ascent? You have no way to dump your wt.
..#2 Whats the point of having the Integrated system then..For me thats how some accidents happen..
Concerned Father... Would like to hear SD members thoughts...
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E= pluribus Forum Enjoy the view. ,Do unto others:respect
#2 Guest_PlatypusMan_*
Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:38 PM
Would like to hear SD members thoughts...
I'm unclear here--is all his weight in rear pockets by the tank and not dumpable? How much weight are we talking about?
Have you privately asked the shop owner about his advice in light of your concerns? There may be something that you are not aware of going on.
#3
Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:20 PM
Check to see if his tank pockets are dump-able. If they are, your son needs to learn how to dump them. If they are NOT dump-able, then I would be interested in hearing what the shop owner's logic is....
#4
Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:34 PM
Would like to hear SD members thoughts...
I'm unclear here--is all his weight in rear pockets by the tank and not dumpable? How much weight are we talking about?
Have you privately asked the shop owner about his advice in light of your concerns? There may be something that you are not aware of going on.
Thanks for the response...
As for the rear pockets John. They have a Velcro cover & yes it's by or next to the tank.As for wt.Granted he only had 10 lbs. on in the POOL.. As for talking to the Owner..He tends to be a my way or no way ..
Maybe I'm just being a DAD??
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E= pluribus Forum Enjoy the view. ,Do unto others:respect
#5 Guest_PlatypusMan_*
Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:38 PM
Would like to hear SD members thoughts...
I'm unclear here--is all his weight in rear pockets by the tank and not dumpable? How much weight are we talking about?
Have you privately asked the shop owner about his advice in light of your concerns? There may be something that you are not aware of going on.
Thanks for the response...
As for the rear pockets John. They have a Velcro cover & yes it's by or next to the tank.As for wt.Granted he only had 10 lbs. on in the POOL.. As for talking to the Owner..He tends to be a my way or no way ..
Maybe I'm just being a DAD??
If that is the case, try spreading the weights out between dumpable and back weight near the tank--I would suggest 6lbs in the front pockets that can be jettisoned, with four in the rear two. Have your son try that configuration and see if he does not stay as easily upright.
#6
Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:40 PM
My tank pockets are dump-able....as long as my range-of-motion will allow the reach. BUT, they are not designed to hold ALL of the weight I need, so I divide my total lead by 4 pockets and load accordingly.
Check to see if his tank pockets are dump-able. If they are, your son needs to learn how to dump them. If they are NOT dump-able, then I would be interested in hearing what the shop owner's logic is....
Thanks,Tammy, no I asked my son,they are not.. I guess I'll have to ask what the logic behind his answer is.I know there is a Balance one needs. But I just thought of the consequences for doing such a practice..I
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E= pluribus Forum Enjoy the view. ,Do unto others:respect
#7
Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:09 PM
As for OOA concern, I don't get that either. Assuming no catastrophic equipment failure (that is why you check gear on the surface) then if you are under long enough to breath an entire tank down, you will be N2 loaded and an uncontrolled ascent will lead to much misery for you and everyone else that has to deal with your new found bentness. If it was caused by equipment failure then you should still be in recreational limits so just do a controlled ESA. I was never taught to drop weights in an OOA ascent and really would not. I asked that exact question once (in my Rescue class no less) and the instructor nearly slapped me.
I am struggling to see when I would ever realistically dump my weights anywhere except on the surface if I was in trouble (leaky bladder) and had to wait a long time for a boat. Your buddy should be there for that but I guess he might not be. Even with that you should be buoyant though since the tank will be lighter and you could always dump the whole rig and float in your neoprene.
It is a very bad day indeed if you really have to dump weights but I guess it could happen statistically.
I suspect this is where your instructor is coming from.
BTW: I dive this way all the time.
#8
Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:33 PM
I agree if one is within Rec.limits then,everything(emergency accent) should be fine.I just think not having acces to ones wt's is unsafe..
The bottom line is , you never know when or where a Tornado will strike either....."other than a complete buoyancy failure condition where the bladder simply won't hold any air?"
Don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing ,as we are all taught . We try to prepare for the unexpected..
You can't fault me for being ,just a Dad I guess..
:
E= pluribus Forum Enjoy the view. ,Do unto others:respect
#9
Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:27 PM
Each wreck has a tale to tell about its life and its demise.
If you are observant while diving in dark places listen to the account each has to tell, You cannot come away unaffected.
Changes in Latitude, Changes in Attitude
#10
Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:06 AM
IMO there should always be sufficient dumpable weight to ensure positive buoyancy with a normal gear configuration. The rest can go in non-dumpable locations. It's what all agencies teach, for good reason. This shop keeper sounds like a dangerous idiot.
I do have two questions. Why should the location of weights cause forward motion? And what is a "bladder style" BC - I thought they all had bladders?
Edited by peterbj7, 04 March 2012 - 03:17 PM.
#11
Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:46 PM
I KNOW I replied to this but my answer isn't here...!
IMO there should always be sufficient dumpable weight to ensure positive buoyancy with a normal gear configuration. The rest can go in non-dumpable locations. It's what all agencies teach, for good reason. This shop keeper soulds like a dangerous idiot.
I do have two questions. Why should the location of weights cause forward motion? And what is a "bladder style" BC - I thought they all had bladders?
Peter,
Yes your right in saying they all have bladders.
My understanding of Bladder was ,your bouancy (bags/containers) ,for lack of a better term is of a style that their in behind you ..vs a Jacket syle that surrounds you.
Thank you for seeing my point...."It's what all agencies teach,for good reason."peterbj7 & Jerry...
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E= pluribus Forum Enjoy the view. ,Do unto others:respect
#12
Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:42 AM
I cannot say I am fully up on what the situation was, but not using dumpable weight pockets if you have them is a little silly in my mind and not something I would recommend.
Tech Support - The hard we do right away; the impossible takes us a little longer...
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#13
Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:12 PM
IANTD have a mantra - "in a stressful situation it is the poorly learned skills that are forgotten first". Think about that.
Edited by peterbj7, 06 March 2012 - 12:13 PM.
#14
Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:58 AM
Greg it is a good idea to talk to the dive shop owner ans ask him this?
What is the advantage to putting all the weight in the back pockets vs some in the side weight pouches etc.
Regardless if he is a "my way or no way" guy...he should have a good answer for the question above and at this point WE'D ALL LOVE TO KNOW WHAT HE HAD IN MIND. So asking him and sharing would be great.
Good thread... and a chance to learn once we know what the shop owner's idea was in his original suggestion.
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#15
Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:02 AM
IANTD have a mantra - "in a stressful situation it is the poorly learned skills that are forgotten first". Think about that.
SO TRUE!!!!
In fact on yesterday's dive I ripped my own mask off like I had been kicked by a diver just to deal with the surprise and then regain composure and put my mask back on and not change my bouyancy. I succeeded on all accounts!
But its important for me to practice this skill as its my weakest skill and I do not want that to be the case in an emergency!
Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
SD LEGACY/OLD/MANUAL Forms & Documents.... here !
Click here TO PAY for Merchandise, Membership, or Travel
"Imitation is the sincerest flattery." - Gandhi
"Imitation is proof that originality is rare." - ScubaHawk
SingleDivers.com...often imitated...never duplicated!
Kamala Shadduck c/o SingleDivers.com LLC
2234 North Federal Hwy, #1010 Boca Raton, FL 33431
formerly...
710 Dive Buddy Lane; Salem, SC 29676
864-557-6079 tel/celfone/office or tollfree fax 888-480-0906
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