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Frog kicking...no not actually kicking a frog..HOW TO DO IT!


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#1 WreckWench

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:20 AM

So you hear the term and statement all the time.. "Make sure you Frog Kick" and its usually followed by "so you don't stir up the sand, silt or superfine sediment"

But what in the world is a frog kick? And how in the world do you do it?

So since most people do not know...they hope they can do a baby flutter kick and no one will notice... WRONG. You've just silted the swim thru or the wreck or the quarry or other venue up and now everyone else gets to see the same thing... 'particulates in the water'. :(

So this thread is here to help!

We are inviting our members to reply with tips, training techniques, and other discussion on the value of the frog kick and why its one of the most valuable diving skills you can add to your own personal training list NO MATTER WHAT LEVEL OF DIVER YOU ARE.

We will then compile the "Best of the Best" as a valuable resource on the site AND we'll offer clinics on how to do it on our trips. Our Rent-A-Buddy program already includes it but you don't have to take advantage of that program to learn to frog kick. But for starters...we'll start to learn via cyberspace and then in the water.

Here's to the world's BEST KICK EVER... THE FROG KICK!!!

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
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#2 Sqbagal

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:49 AM

Don't know that I could write an explanation - let's go diving and I'll SHOW you how! Posted ImageUntil then, hopefully this link works:
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#3 WreckWench

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

That is a great video because it SHOWS both a frog kick as well as a flutter kick. Of course we also refer to the traditional up and down kick as a flutter kick.

In this video it is done with bent knees and while it will STILL STIR UP THE SILT ...doing it the way the video shows will still it up much less. HOWEVER you won't ever stir up the silt by doing the frog kick so hopefully we can use videos like these and help from various members on trips to help anyone who wants to learn to frog kick be successful! :respect:

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
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"Imitation is the sincerest flattery." - Gandhi
"Imitation is proof that originality is rare." - ScubaHawk
SingleDivers.com...often imitated...never duplicated!

Kamala Shadduck c/o SingleDivers.com LLC
2234 North Federal Hwy, #1010 Boca Raton, FL 33431
formerly...
710 Dive Buddy Lane; Salem, SC 29676
864-557-6079 tel/celfone/office or tollfree fax 888-480-0906

#4 WreckWench

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:34 PM

This video shows you on land how to do the frog kick as well as in the water. Another excellent example!

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
SD Forms & Documents.... here !

Click here TO PAY for Merchandise, Membership, or Travel
"Imitation is the sincerest flattery." - Gandhi
"Imitation is proof that originality is rare." - ScubaHawk
SingleDivers.com...often imitated...never duplicated!

Kamala Shadduck c/o SingleDivers.com LLC
2234 North Federal Hwy, #1010 Boca Raton, FL 33431
formerly...
710 Dive Buddy Lane; Salem, SC 29676
864-557-6079 tel/celfone/office or tollfree fax 888-480-0906

#5 jesterdiver

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:45 AM

When I decided to take a PADI Wreck class with a GUE instructor I had to quickly learn to do the frog kick. These videos helped me the most.




Frog Kick



Frog Kick Broken Down by Strokes

Edited by jesterdiver, 09 March 2014 - 08:47 AM.


#6 jesterdiver

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:49 AM

Variations on Frog Kick great for wreck/cave confined space diving, one of my favorites! Used it in some of the wrecks in Roatan when going thru narrow passageways. No silt and no banging the walls of the wreck.




#7 WreckWench

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:06 AM

Variations on Frog Kick great for wreck/cave confined space diving, one of my favorites! Used it in some of the wrecks in Roatan when going thru narrow passageways. No silt and no banging the walls of the wreck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxhOtfEPzP0



YEP!!! This is the ticket!!! :wakawaka:

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
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Click here TO PAY for Merchandise, Membership, or Travel
"Imitation is the sincerest flattery." - Gandhi
"Imitation is proof that originality is rare." - ScubaHawk
SingleDivers.com...often imitated...never duplicated!

Kamala Shadduck c/o SingleDivers.com LLC
2234 North Federal Hwy, #1010 Boca Raton, FL 33431
formerly...
710 Dive Buddy Lane; Salem, SC 29676
864-557-6079 tel/celfone/office or tollfree fax 888-480-0906

#8 jesterdiver

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:57 AM

I pretty much only dive with frog kicks now. The advantages are numerous!

1. Way more efficient. The stroke has a built in resting phase where you coast without any motion for a second or two. Where as in traditional flutter kicking you are constantly kicking thus working harder and going through air much faster over the course of an entire dive. One of the biggest misconceptions in diving is that speed matters. It doesn't, slow and steady means longer bottom times and more time doing what you went there to do in the first place. "Work smarter, not harder " ~ Mr. Scrooge McDuck

2. Saves reefs! When flutter kicking your fins can extend below your body over 12-16 inches. Divers tend to like to get down close to the reef to see the little critters and don't realize that although they are a foot over the reef, their fin tips are not and are dragging and beating up coral. Even if your tips aren't touching the reef, the force of the downstroke of a flutter kick alone can break off a piece of fragile coral. Unfortunately, I've seen it happen. With your knees bent you can get real low and close to the reef and not have to worry about damaging the reef because your tips are up and out of the way. Your propulsion force is sent directly behind you instead of downward protecting the reef.

3. Best for proper trim. Having your knees bent shifts your center of gravity up your body. Many divers, even experienced divers tend to dive in a heads up position. In other words not perfectly flat and horizontal like you see in the videos above. Since your body is not as long with your knees bent, it shifts your center of gravity up your body and thus lowers your head position and making it easier to get into, and stay in a flat horizontal position throughout the dive. Staying flat and horizontal means you cut through the water much easier and are able to glide saving energy and air!

4. And yeah as many have noted before, it keeps other divers behind you from cursing you because you just went through an area and silted up everything and made everyone behind you swim through pea soup! In recreational open water diving it's annoying. In technical confined environments, it can get you or your buddy killed. Stuck in a wreck or cave 150 feet underwater with zero vis is not a fun place to be.



The videos above show different variations on the frog kick for different purposes.

The first video is a pretty standard frog kick as I know it. The diver has a larger wider sweeping motion with his legs. This gives you the most power and forward thrust. The guy featured through most of that first vid was going through his kick cycles a little fast actually and really wasn't holding onto the resting portion of the kick long enough. After the power portion, the diver should let himself glide for a second or two. before beginning the next kick cycle. At the end of that 1st vid a second dive shows up and his timing is much better and you can see how the frog kick gives you a nice long resting glide (continued at beginning of 3rd vid).

The second vid and the beginning of the 3rd vid show what I know to be the modified Frog kick. The main difference is the the knees and legs do not come apart in the same large arcing sweeping motion as the first video. In these videos the legs and knees stay about shoulder width, or slightly wider on the loading stroke, apart and the knees stay closer to a 45 to 90 degree angle and don't come down as much. This gives good power on the stroke but confines the propulsion to directly behind you and keeps you more streamlined.

The third video shows the difference between a modified frog and a confined frog. Around the 1:15 mark the diver switches into the confined space version and here the knees and legs do not come apart more than shoulder width and almost all the motion is in the rolling of the ankles and feet. Great for squeezing in tight spaces and not kicking the surroundings.

Btw. I know that different divers and even teaching organizations have different names for the same kicks, lol!

Hope this helps everyone and thanks Kamala for bringing this topic up, if more divers used these techniques we'd have healthier reefs, unsilted wreck dives, and longer bottom times, all good things for divers!!! Posted Image/>

Edited by jesterdiver, 09 March 2014 - 11:58 AM.


#9 Jerrymxz

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:57 AM

Excellent thread WW and to all who posted the video's. To bring this full circle all you Go-Pro folks, Take video of people who ...maybe need a bit of help with their technique so they can compare it to one of the Youtube videos. On our recient Chuuk and Palau there were several people who were great at frog kicking. That made me break out my A game when inside the wrecks or close to the bottom. Watching someone ahead of me doing it right is a great reminder to myself that I need to do it right too. Keep the video's coming

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#10 WreckWench

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

Excellent insight Jose..that is what I was hoping our members would do...share THEIR insight on the kick and their personal secrets or take aways!

Jerry I had the same thoughts when I followed someone with a great frog kick...it make be bring up my A game to make sure I didn't mess it up for those behind me.

And we can ALL use the practice...so that is the goal for 2014 and 2015... help everyone learn this amazing and practical kick. Then we can all say... BRING ON THE WRECKS, the SWIMTHRU'S and the other areas with UNDISTURBED SILT...cuz WE CAN HANDLE IT!!!

Contact me directly at Kamala@SingleDivers.com for your private or group travel needs or 864-557-6079 AND don't miss SD's 2018-2021 Trips! ....here! Most are once in a lifetime opportunities...don't miss the chance to go!!
SD Forms & Documents.... here !

Click here TO PAY for Merchandise, Membership, or Travel
"Imitation is the sincerest flattery." - Gandhi
"Imitation is proof that originality is rare." - ScubaHawk
SingleDivers.com...often imitated...never duplicated!

Kamala Shadduck c/o SingleDivers.com LLC
2234 North Federal Hwy, #1010 Boca Raton, FL 33431
formerly...
710 Dive Buddy Lane; Salem, SC 29676
864-557-6079 tel/celfone/office or tollfree fax 888-480-0906

#11 Jerrymxz

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

In another vein, if everyone would have frog kicked to the place we settled in at German channel the vis would have been much better. it took several minutes after everyone was in the sand before the vis was even close to what it was before we got there. but with all the people in that area I guess that's a lot to ask.

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#12 DiviDivaDiver

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:03 AM

Wow, thanks, this is awesome. I don't recall any of my classes focusing on this so these videos really help. Kamala I could see you were using little effort but could not figure out exactly how you were doing it. The movement seemed so slow and small. I will work on this on the trip.


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#13 Diesel

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

I tend to do a one legged Frog kick myself and I'm not sure if it's even right. My right leg just tends to relax because i can't turn my ankle that direction.

#14 jesterdiver

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:34 AM

Hey Diesel,

You may want to look into the modified flutter kick if you have trouble with rotating your ankle. It's the exact same leg positioning at the frog kick, but the foot does a small controlled up and down motion as opposed to the rolling of the ankles with the frog kick. It gives you similar efficiency, limits stirring up silt, and keeps your fins out of the reef. It's not as effective as the frog kick in my opinion, but it's way better than a standard flutter kick! I'll try to find a video on youtube for you when I get a chance or just Google modified flutter kick and a youtube vid should pop up.

#15 Diesel

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 12:14 PM

I can't move my right ankle very much anyway. I had a stroke in my mother's womb right before I was born. Actually in the bent position my right leg gets tired and my leg leg does double duty. Here in Florida I sometimes get nervous because when I do go out on a boat, the current rips out there some days.


This has been with me since. Thank you for the insight though. I am hoping to go to Rotan in October as well.

Hey Diesel,

You may want to look into the modified flutter kick if you have trouble with rotating your ankle. It's the exact same leg positioning at the frog kick, but the foot does a small controlled up and down motion as opposed to the rolling of the ankles with the frog kick. It gives you similar efficiency, limits stirring up silt, and keeps your fins out of the reef. It's not as effective as the frog kick in my opinion, but it's way better than a standard flutter kick! I'll try to find a video on youtube for you when I get a chance or just Google modified flutter kick and a youtube vid should pop up.


Edited by Diesel, 02 April 2014 - 12:19 PM.





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