31 replies to this topic

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

At some point PHP5.6 will no longer work.  When that happens then the both the forums and Joomla will crash literally overnight.  The crypto thread gave a Pam a good idea and I ran with.  Here is one way to move forward without PHP5.6

 

Step 1 - Forums:

Upgrade to the latest version of IP.Board.  This will use a recent version of PHP and no data will be lost.  

 

Step 2 - Sell Trips:

Move payments over to Zelle and Venmo.  These did not exist when the current site was built.  You will have to create an invoice for each initial purchase to track what it is for.  They submit the invoice number with the payment.  Partial payments and one time payments won't necessarily take an invoice.   Track sales the way you currently do in the forums.  Joomla is retired.

 

Step 3 - Forms:

Move forms over to Google Forms or SurveyMonkey.  You can copy a form over for each trip and send the links when they are added to the Trip PM.  Both of these output the data to an Excel spreadsheet so they are perfect for this job.

 

that's it...

 

Issues

1) Obviously some variation of creating an invoice needs to be created.  Word, Google Docs, whatever

2) The new forums don't use the same membership module.  Someone needs to check if the data ports. I think it does.

3) Preferably you can drop Forte and move to Stripe for membership only.  Stripe is supported by the new forum membership app. Stripe won't be used for anything else.

 

This process give you a new system that takes no development or integration and it is both maintainable and easily modified.

 

 

 

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

Or you could use PayPal for membership and PayPal, Zelle, and Venmo fir merchandise. Then you lose all pci requirements and also dont dont have to mess with forte anymore.

[WreckWench]

If we move from Forte we also lose nearly every payment made to SD since accepting online payments. That is a ton of history to lose. But if this is the only way to survive then I'm sure I will have to accept it. Something is better than nothing.

[dive_sail_etc]

If we move from Forte we also lose nearly every payment made to SD since accepting online payments. That is a ton of history to lose. But if this is the only way to survive then I'm sure I will have to accept it. Something is better than nothing.

I have to believe the Forte database can be ported to another format if for no other reason archiving.

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

I have no clue what this means but it can be downloaded to spreadsheet or quickbooks file.  All this data should be in quickbooks already or there is no point in having quickbooks.

 

I would recommend the following just to be safe.

 

1) contact IPS and find out if the current membership data can be ported to the new membership app.

2) investigate something like "jotforms" as a new forms database. It looks like you can even make order forms so they can place an order and you can then send them a numbered invoice to pay for it.  I guess you could send them to the Forte webform if you want to, I forgot that existed yesterday.

 

I have found that a large number of people, maybe even most, post when they buy everything for some reason so I'm not sure this will make that big of a difference in that regard.  It could clear up a lot of misunderstanding though when people buy things.  Just send them an invoice and a link to the Forte payform.  It might be a cleaner solution than you have now and probably easier to modify and maintain.

 

You just want to have this in your back pocket for a bad day.  I think it would be a good idea. The last thing you want to do is have to figure out a solution with a gun pointed to your head and everyone screaming "give me my money back."

[Blue151]

I agree with Scott that you want to figure out a transition before you are force in a corner.  The last couple of years, Online payments system have made a lot of progress so it is worth investigating the forms programs etc.

 

My recommendation would be to update to the latest version of IP.Board and then put some items payable by Paypal/Zelle/Venmo.  Pick something like membership and see how it works, how people like it both from a customer perspective and a backside accounting/payment management perspective.

 

While it is getting more mainstream - not EVERYONE is on those platforms yet.  I think you should *still* give them the option to use what they do now and/or Paypal/Zelle/Venmo though the transition.  Is this possible?  Might be tough in the beginning to run both systems, but better to learn on a small scale instead of everything at once.  Might be just as easy, I just don't know how forte works with the backside integration.  However, the way Scott explains it above maybe you could replace the OTP?  Again, no real insight into accounting and how everyone keeps track of that stuff (i.e. how does Brad know to upgrade a membership so they can book trips, etc).  But this also gives you time to figure out what forms/programs you want to use if you are getting away from Joomla.

 

If everyone likes the new interface/accounting/etc then look at a bigger implementation with trips/etc later.

[Cajun Diver]

This is something we need to look at going forward but we do have time since Opalstack does not have any plans currently to stop supporting PHP 5.6.  We could also set up a test site and see what changes would be needed just to move to PHP 7.4 (the next version up they support).

 

The latest forum software is a monthly or yearly subscription and is kind of expensive.  They do have a migration page and it appears it would migrate the current forum software.

 

On the online payments I prefer a no fee type (ie echeck currently) so I'm not losing much in fees and I can more easily manage my budget.  While Zelle is very good, doesn't have a fee for the user (and I do use it) not every bank supports it.

 

Whatever we figure out we would still have to run both systems for a while for the transition.

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

Upgrading the forums now is going to break Joomla.  The member account systems are linked and they changed the formats.  You could disable the smart boardboard extension in Joomla but that may break things also.  Once its upgraded, you are not going back without a lot of backups.  That is why I said to just make sure you could upgrade.  I'm not sure its possible to upgrade the forums without ditching Joomla in the process.

 

After upgrading, the forte option for membership in IP.board will be gone until someone hacks a new one.  Its not hard to do for the right person but I don't know what the new membership code looks like.  The Forte requirement is really what holds everything back. 

 

You could start with just one small trip and don't list it in Hika.  Just do it all through Jotforms with PayPal, Zelle, and Venmo.  Maybe do a Florida type trip.  That will give you an idea.

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

This is something we need to look at going forward but we do have time since Opalstack does not have any plans currently to stop supporting PHP 5.6.  We could also set up a test site and see what changes would be needed just to move to PHP 7.4 (the next version up they support).

 

The latest forum software is a monthly or yearly subscription and is kind of expensive.  They do have a migration page and it appears it would migrate the current forum software.

 

On the online payments I prefer a no fee type (ie echeck currently) so I'm not losing much in fees and I can more easily manage my budget.  While Zelle is very good, doesn't have a fee for the user (and I do use it) not every bank supports it.

 

Whatever we figure out we would still have to run both systems for a while for the transition.

IPB licensing is out of control and they don't help you at all. Its not just the cost, the terms are also more strict and make it difficult to even set up a test and prod site.  Lots of people are dropping them but they made their database so complex that nobody offers services to port it since it way too much work.  So either you pay the ransom or start over with an empty database.  I really don't like using them but you are painted into a corner just like with Forte.

[Cajun Diver]

Yes it would break the link to joomla and we would need to do a test site to see even if we wanted to move.  Looking through their pages I'm not sure we want to do that.

 

I think we need to slow down and think through what we might want to do.  That way any accounting or business process issues can be thought about to identify problems or things that won't work.

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

there are a ton of forms options out there now that didn't exist when this site was made and I think probably a lot of simple options now.  I am just offering one possibility with the warning to not wait too long to figure out the details.  PHP5.6 may not be removed but that doesn't mean a critical flaw in the database or web server won't be uncovered and the patch requires dropping PHP5.6.  You can lose the site in a number of ways because of a PHP5.6 dependency that don't involve a planned pulling PHP5.6 from the server.  Everything is connected.

[Blue151]

there are a ton of forms options out there now that didn't exist when this site was made and I think probably a lot of simple options now.  I am just offering one possibility with the warning to not wait too long to figure out the details.  PHP5.6 may not be removed but that doesn't mean a critical flaw in the database or web server won't be uncovered and the patch requires dropping PHP5.6.  You can lose the site in a number of ways because of a PHP5.6 dependency that don't involve a planned pulling PHP5.6 from the server.  Everything is connected.

 

I agree... and we need to move sooner rather than later on any changes.  The past couple years dramatically changed the online shopping system opportunities.

[Cajun Diver]

OK so lets look at what is available and what it would take to make it work.  I'll outline what I think but feel free to correct anything as necessary.  I'll also email this out and include Steve in case he has any ideas.  We'll use this thread to keep track of what we are doing.

 

1.  Look at what platform to use.  Options are move to new Invision forum software or another CMS (Joomla, Wordpress).  If using a CMS we would use their forums to make it all one platform.

     a.  Costs

     b.  Dependencies

     c.  Issues (like WordPress is very popular but gets attacked frequently, having to learn something new)

 

2.  Look at what payment system to use.

     a.  Forte & Paypal - currently in use and I think it's integrated with Quickbooks for the accountant

     b.  Paypal, Zelle, Venmo, Stripe or others

 

3.  Look at what forms to use

     a. Google Forms

     b.  SurveyMonkey

     c.  JotForms

 

Might also be worth getting together via zoom to talk about if we can get everyone together at the same time.

[Cmdr. Clownfish]

Work is actually good now and I may be in management soon so I won't be big part of this effort.  I did look at what IPS is offering now in the latest upgrade and think that there is a lot of good stuff there, if it works.  In the past you only paid for the upgrade and then could forgo the maintenance costs.  Kamala hasn't paid them in years. I'm not sure if that is how it works now, it may not be since they have gone somewhat draconian with their licensing.

 

In more detail I think the new clubs feature is nice.  They appear to be like Facebook groups and could be a cool way to organize trips in a social fashion.  There are now a lot of social media integrations as well as a zapier integration which could be handy.  There is also a CMS module and a blog so it could work really well.

 

So I think upgrading to some of these features and using an external forms like google forms or jotforms could be a good option.  There is a hosted payment form at Forte so if you push them outside of the CMS for payments there is no reason it could not be there.  The only real issue I see at first glance is managing payments and invoices.  Without a developer, you may have to live with that no matter what.

[Cajun Diver]

Glad to hear work is good - management can be a real pain depending on what level and how much stupid stuff you have to do (get that TPS report in and make sure you use the RIGHT cover sheet)

 

I'll try to take some time this week to look at Invision to see what it can do / costs associated but I'm already tied up quite a bit this week so it may be next week.