121 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

My personal view got moved (rightfully as it had to with scuba training for children/teens as well). I am with Marvel. I personally feel that dragging children along on a dive trip does a disservice to both the children and the parents for the reasons that she presents.

As to why I don't have children... my business. But, let me assure you that few people love to have a decently behaved and curious child around as much as I do. I can live without children at this point as well. My life is adapted to life without my own children and that is fine. I would rather not bring a child into the world than bring a child into the world that has to see mom and dad fighting all of the time. I have my pets. They get treated like children, LOL. My ex-lady friends had children. I felt worse about leaving the children than the lady friends.

Now, children that are raised to be respectful are great. I can even take a little of the "are we there yet?" and "light mischief" mentality. I don't expect pre-programmed robots in place of children. Most of the children that I have had to deal have been of this variety. Unfortunately, I have had to deal with children on the other end of the spectrum as well. The behavior of these children is often contributed to other factors, but I am NOT in a position to correct them (not their father) and get forced to put up with it. Sorry! That is not on my agenda. And I will not deal with it on a dive vacation. The key word here is vacation.

If the child wants to sit on my lap while I read to them or help me fix things or play games with me, I am great with that! If they want to be brats, I can hand them back to their parents. Until then, I will be "Uncle Brian" when I can and go diving when I can. The two concepts do occasionally meet, but not often.

[WreckWench]

Note: A number of posts have been edited in this thread.

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[nextariel]

Not to be too personal, but were those your kids or the kids of someone you personally knew involved in the program? Did you notice roughly how olde the kids were in the program?  There is a big difference in social skills between 9 year olds and say 13 year olds.... I am wondering how the resort deals with the age difference

I looked at their web site, and my first reaction is that this place is too good to be true.

I appreciate the reference to the resort, thanks!

I don't have children. No I didn't know the children, but met some on the airplane in. The children were from (I'm guessing) 6 -16. They split them into groups depending on the activities. There was a large club that arrived the day before we left and I would say most of them were 12-16. Since there is only one restaurant and it is all inclusive, I saw the children during meals. There was one who reported in on his daily activities during dinner.

[mvillanueva]

Thanks for the report --- I really like that resort, that sounds like a wonderful place to visit.

[Mishelle]

A great dive that parents can do, and include their children is Disney's Epcot. I have done this dive twice and it is amazing fun. While I dove the second time, my mom, dad, and my now ex in-laws watched my daughter. At Disney they video tape for you, so we told grandparents where to be when the dive started. Sure enough they were there and dive videographer took excellent footage of us with my daughter. Us diving, her watching through the glass. I even played Patty Cake with here. I got to dive and she got to see Disney. The best of both worlds. And now she has a video that she watches constantly of sharks, rays, and a ton of other fish, including the scuba kind
If you want more info, feel free to contact me or you can go to:
http://disneyworld.d...veQuestTourPage

And if your child is certified and is 10 or older, they can join you.

[Genesis]

Only thing to be aware of at Epcot is that you can't bring any of your own gear (except a mask) and the shorties they have are not, IMHO, enough.

The dive is ~40 minutes and I was getting damn cold by the end of it. If you don't like jacket BCs, Atomic regs and split fins you're going to be less-than-thrilled.

The regs are nice breathers but the rest are not my fave.

Nonetheless, it's an interesting and very different experience, albiet a bit expensive (roughly $100; there are several "10%" discounts available, but none cumulatively.) I've done it twice - once for me and once a year or so later as a friend's kid's birthday present. My daughter enjoyed watching me from the other side of the glass... (she's too young to dive yet)

Note that the rest of your party does NOT "usually" get admission with this, so if they want to watch you they need to buy their way into the park. They tell you that you don't as well, but that's not true - after you get done with the dive they dump you back into Epcot - so you effectively get the evening "free" in the park. Kinda cool in that you can do the dive, get some eats, and then watch the fireworks.

Sometimes, depending on the mood of the folks doing the screening, they may let your party into the tank observation area without tickets. If they do then the rest of your party effectively get admission for the rest of the evening too. I would not count on this however, as it is entirely at the discretion of the guide, and Epcot's published procedure is that it is NOT included.

So if you have a kid with you and another adult to watch them this $100 dive can suddenly became a $200 dive unless they have season passes already.

IMHO if you're going to do this the only way to be 'safe' from such a risk is to plan that day as a full day at Epcot anyway - that way the people who want to watch you from the dry side are not at risk of being shut out.

Oh, and the video is extra and, when I was there, on tape only (no DVD option.)

Summary: Different, nice, but expensive.

[Mishelle]

I guess I had a different experience the two times I went. I do know that they ask you not to bring your gear because they are trying to eliminate any possible contaminates in the water. And we were even ask to only use our mask if it was for prescription purposes. The dive was 140 and , like you said, we just planned it around our day at Epcot. I thought it was actually a good deal. As for the video, they do say they charge, but I was never asked to pay for it.

I think the biggest selling point for me was diving with the turtles, sharks, rays and all the other marine life that I would have not seen on any one dive. It is an amazing thing to be literally two inches from a giant sea turtle or a 500 lb. Grouper. I also liked that we were really kind of free to roam. It was neat to interact with all the Disney guests, too! But like you said, others may hold a different opinion. I am going again this summer.

[Marvel]

Only thing to be aware of at Epcot is that you can't bring any of your own gear (except a mask) and the shorties they have are not, IMHO, enough.

That's the primary reason that I have never done this dive. I suffer from a condition known as Aquired Cold Urticaria (I'm allergic to cold) & I cannot make this dive, which I understand is in 78 degree water, in just a 3 mil shorty. If an opportunity to do this dive with friends ever arises, I would first have to see if they would be willing to make an exception for me.

[nextariel]

You can ask for an extra shorty or more. I dove with 2 and was fine. The DM's have full suits, but they are also doing 2 or 3 dives a night. So if you really have an issue you may be able to use one of theirs. Also one of the guys from my Local Dive club brought a hooded vest which had never been worn and he was allowed to use it.

Disney is offering group prices and WW had thought we would combine with a manatee dive this month. There did not seem to be the interest.

This dive has been of my favories, because like Mishelle says to see all the marine life in one dive is great. I would say the most fun I had was interacting with the guests who were eating diner and those watching from the observation deck. When kids have never seen a diver before it's a real kick. Also it is a great way for family members see you dive if they never have.

My club is planning it's 3rd group outing in less then a year because everyone has so much fun we keep selling out the trip and more want to go.

Edited by nextariel, 06 February 2005 - 03:17 PM.

[Walter]

Interesting. I never thought there would be this much interest in a pool dive, even with all the critters. I was wrong.

[Genesis]

Only thing to be aware of at Epcot is that you can't bring any of your own gear (except a mask) and the shorties they have are not, IMHO, enough.

That's the primary reason that I have never done this dive. I suffer from a condition known as Aquired Cold Urticaria (I'm allergic to cold) & I cannot make this dive, which I understand is in 78 degree water, in just a 3 mil shorty. If an opportunity to do this dive with friends ever arises, I would first have to see if they would be willing to make an exception for me.

Yep.

I know a couple of other people who would like to do it but there's no way they'd make it in a shorty. I was ok, but I won't say I was warm - by the end of the 40 minutes I was done, even though I had well over a half-tank of gas left.

(Scary thing is that some folks actually went up for a second tank! It ain't that deep! They'll give you another one if you run low; just come up and they'll fit you with a second tank as long as there is more than 5 minutes or so left on the clock.)

I didn't know they'd allow you a second shorty over the top. They really need to consider offering at least 3 mil fullsuits for this dive. I understand why they don't from their perspective (its a matter of fit - shorties don't have 'body length' issues) and the reason for them not allowing personal gear is possible contamination, which I understand.

The variety of fish and gin-clear water are interesting, although they're darn proud of the size of their Jewfish and turtles, and neither is, by standards around here, all that big. Still, all of them in one place is cool. The ride at the bottom that is no longer in service (closed after 9/11) is kinda neat to check out; you can see the cars and track in there from inside the tank quite clearly.

Still, I wish they'd either turn up the temp in the tank or have more exposure protection available, and it is a bit expensive - but then again, everything at Disney is.....

[WreckWench]

From the sounds of things THIS may be a parent/children diving trip option! But it sounds good to me regardless! -ww

[randy54]

You've already pointed out the self-defeating logic of people with no children (voluntarily) essentially denying their own existance or at least the purpose of it... but there are other things to consider as well. Perhaps they simply aren't as strong as those of us who are parents? Some people simply aren't capable of giving love beyond themselves. Two words immediately come to my mind... issues and selfishness. If they did have terrible issues with their own parents, then personally I'm glad they don't choose to have children, I would rather break the chain of bad parental habits now and not ruin any future people that may be affected. If selfishness motivates them, then good for them. When I retire I may not have a Mercedes Benz in the driveway or a condo in Mexico, but I will leave behind a living legacy of love and kindness that will continue to shine for generations to come. And... I'll have someone to help me put my fins on that is still nimble enough to do it! 

Neptuner, your statement left me speachless. What of those in the clergy who have taken a vow of celibacy to perform Gods work? Are they weak and incapable of love beyond themselves? And the animalistic parents/foster parents who we hear about in the news, tourturing and starving their childeren? Are they the strong ones? I'm sure your answer to both of those would be "of course not". My point being since you don't know why someone choses to have or not have childern, follow the good books advice to Judge Not, Least Ye Be Judged.

[Diverbrian]

You've already pointed out the self-defeating logic of people with no children (voluntarily) essentially denying their own existance or at least the purpose of it... but there are other things to consider as well. Perhaps they simply aren't as strong as those of us who are parents? Some people simply aren't capable of giving love beyond themselves. Two words immediately come to my mind... issues and selfishness. If they did have terrible issues with their own parents, then personally I'm glad they don't choose to have children, I would rather break the chain of bad parental habits now and not ruin any future people that may be affected. If selfishness motivates them, then good for them. When I retire I may not have a Mercedes Benz in the driveway or a condo in Mexico, but I will leave behind a living legacy of love and kindness that will continue to shine for generations to come. And... I'll have someone to help me put my fins on that is still nimble enough to do it! 

Neptuner, your statement left me speachless. What of those in the clergy who have taken a vow of celibacy to perform Gods work? Are they weak and incapable of love beyond themselves? And the animalistic parents/foster parents who we hear about in the news, tourturing and starving their childeren? Are they the strong ones? I'm sure your answer to both of those would be "of course not". My point being since you don't know why someone choses to have or not have childern, follow the good books advice to Judge Not, Least Ye Be Judged.

Randy,

Before you get too upset (which I almost did myself), read his whole post. He references the fact that everybody has been tongue in cheek here. He was being tongue in cheek (to some extent) as well. Let me add that were some legitimate points to that part of his post.

As I said, some of us have our reasons for not having our own children. I don't consider mine selfish. But others may and that is all right with me. I am also the first to volunteer to read to children and play games with them (so that I may act like a big kid myself) so long as the children are well behaved.

I look at it this way. I have one co-worker with five children and one with four. They have already made up for the 2-3 children that I didn't have, LOL.

Let's all have fun here!

Brian

Brian

[hnladue]

You've already pointed out the self-defeating logic of people with no children (voluntarily) essentially denying their own existance or at least the purpose of it... but there are other things to consider as well. Perhaps they simply aren't as strong as those of us who are parents? Some people simply aren't capable of giving love beyond themselves. Two words immediately come to my mind... issues and selfishness. If they did have terrible issues with their own parents, then personally I'm glad they don't choose to have children, I would rather break the chain of bad parental habits now and not ruin any future people that may be affected. If selfishness motivates them, then good for them. When I retire I may not have a Mercedes Benz in the driveway or a condo in Mexico, but I will leave behind a living legacy of love and kindness that will continue to shine for generations to come. And... I'll have someone to help me put my fins on that is still nimble enough to do it! 

Neptuner, your statement left me speachless. What of those in the clergy who have taken a vow of celibacy to perform Gods work? Are they weak and incapable of love beyond themselves? And the animalistic parents/foster parents who we hear about in the news, tourturing and starving their childeren? Are they the strong ones? I'm sure your answer to both of those would be "of course not". My point being since you don't know why someone choses to have or not have childern, follow the good books advice to Judge Not, Least Ye Be Judged.

Wow.... is all I can say.... Neptuner you have NO clue.....

I have no children because I'm NOT MARRIED!!! I don't believe in having children unless you are married. And then in a good marrage! I also don't believe in divorce!!! So I guess that why I'm still single. Scares all the guys away! I'm not selffish... but I guess the above are my 'issues'. I would not like to bring a child into this world the way things are and not unless they will have a 'proper' family life. Where there is a mommy and a daddy always around. So I guess I'll be single and childless all my life.... I guess it's my choice and then again maybe not.

Love and kindness Neptuner?? I just don't see it here.

Randy-thanks for the quote!