76 replies to this topic

[Lubold8431]

Well, my opinion (and people that are in the "know") is that if you have a chest larger than a 48, you probably wont be comfortable with the straps crossed. That being said, some people do, some dont. On some BP's, the straps may not come out of the BP flat when NOT crossed.

So, that being said, I use a DR classic wing for heavy doubles diving with two deco bottles, and an argon bottle, and a can lite. Plenty of lift for me ever since I switched to AL deco bottles. If you use steel (which I can advise is not a good choice), you most likely will need more lift. I dont advise using a double bladder wing. Many threads on the pros and cons of that over on the other boards. My reasoning for not using one is that in order to use correctly, you should have both inflators hooked up to a LP hose at all times. This may lead to a runaway inflator if it malfunctions, and you might not be able to notice it before its too late. Also, having another inflator around is just more crap that you dont need. If you dive heavy steel cylinders, you should be diving in a drysuit (secondary lift, and you should carry a liftbag or surface marker). Deco/Stage bottles should be AL, not steel (unless you are cave diving, and drop the steel cylinders).

The BP issue is more complex. I started out with a standard DR SS 6# plate, and then switched to a GUTS 12# BP for doubles, and also have an AL FREDT plate for travel. Most people can go with a 5 or 6 # plate and be happy. Good Luck...

[fbp]

?so if
you have a 42" chest, then they should be crossed?? or does it matter at all..

My impression from the DIR people is that X is better as it stays down closer or something like that.. I use SS Backplate for Tropical and the straps are straight down. Up here, I use an SS with 8ls attached weight and a single HP 120 with a 30cf pony (steel) with crossed straps.. heheh..
so help me out here..
does it REALLY make a dif or is it just a matter of comfort an agency policies...

I ask, as It's easier to get into with the straight straps.. not much, but enough to think about it..

thanx ... it's always something eh??

[Lubold8431]

Well, yes. If you cross them, they will stay in closer to you. It boils down to personal preference, however, and comfort. If you try them crossed, and find out its harder for you to get in and out of, then uncross them. Personally, I dont know many people that DO cross them. Mostly uncrossed. So, YMMV...
I wasnt aware of what the "official" DIR position is on this. Not that I care, however. I think everyone has to think about their own kit, and make sure that it fits their diving, and fits them comfortably.
Dont be a DIR poster child just because its the "in" thing to do.
Also, dont dive big steel doubles just because you want to look cool. A set of double AL 80's have plenty of gas, and are alot lighter than heavy steels. Pick the cylinders you need for the type of diving you are doing. I have to laugh every time I see some guys doing a 60 ft dive with double E8-130's. There is no need, and you are bringing along alot of extra gas which will weigh you down the whole dive. I have a set of double 100's for short rec type dives, and then break out the 112 monsters for the deeper dives.

[Coo's Toe]

I've never seen anyone cross their straps before, but I'm sure there are some who do this. I use mine straight.

Glad to see you weighing in on this one Lubold

[Coo's Toe]

You'd probably have a good laugh at me then. Double 104's on all my recreational dives for a while now. Mainly as practice for classes later this year, when they will be more of a necessity.

I'm setting up two sets of double 72's at the moment, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Double 104's is way too much overkill for a lot of the diving I do.

[fbp]

Dont be a DIR poster child just because its the "in" thing to do.

LOL.. thanx, I'd hardly qualify for a poster child,
but was interested in knowing what the "Norm" was... I was told quite specifically They're X'd... no other way.. heheh.. that and a few other things almost made me go somewhere else...
I insisted on putting a buckle on one strap, he just about went through the roof...
Just easier to get out of.. I've seen some reports that it's a No-no... but can't see it for the type of Rec diving I do..
but cooler heads prevailed.. anyway,
thanx much, appreciate the feed back...

Next set of straps, I'll go straight.. heheh... now that doesn't sound right...?

thanx again.. CT too...

Edited by fbp, 16 April 2004 - 11:13 PM.

[fbp]

So with double 72s as compared to a single 130/120 or?... is it because of smaller size? eaiser to balance? or another reason... or is it the amount of air as in 142..
or do you just get 2 dives off them. 1 dive per tank? on an average?

[Lubold8431]

Well, Ive never heard or seen of anyone that is so vocal on crossing straps. As I said, I am not aware of that being such a big deal. Most people I know do NOT have them crossed. To quick release or no? That is the question. Tough one. On my first harness that I ever owned, I did have one. Never used it, also got in the way for moving drings around. So, I got rid of that harness and went to a standard one piece. Much easier for additions or replacement. It works for me. THat doesnt mean that it will work for everyone. If you think that you need a QR for the type of diving that you are doing (ie- if you have to remove your kit in the water to get back onto a boat), then go ahead. I will say that after you use a one piece harness, you will see that its not that difficult to get into and out of it.

The tank issue. That is a hotly debated area. Everyone says they are going to be doing some deeper diving in the future. If you need to practice with your 104's or 130's, OK, thats cool, I understand. I just see alot of people using cylinders that are overkill for the dives they are doing. One argument for using the bigger tanks is that you can get two long dives out of them. Well, I can do that with my 100's. Thats why I have a smaller set of doubles for rec dives. And yes, the 72's are much lighter than lugging around a set of 104's or 130's. 72's or 100's or AL 80's make great doubles. the AL 80's can be tough if you need alot of lead to get you down. Thats why I use the 100's. I wish I could get my hands on some 72's for doubles, but havent found any that look worthy enough...
Good Luck...

Edited by Lubold8431, 17 April 2004 - 08:06 AM.

[fbp]

Hmmm thanx LuBold,
Interesting as I see the same thing, fourteen 140cf steel tanks for a local 60' dive and like you say, there's always that "Deeper Dive" right around the corner.

On the other hand I've also noticed for my self, that I need to keep the same configuration no matter where I dive. I'm not a Techie diver, just a simple Photo Diver, don't penetrate wrecks to any degree (am Wreck Certified whatever that means) but I've found that if I start fiddling in changing things, I usually regret it during the dive.

Forgot something, didn't clip this off or weight is a little lite, you know the drill... so when the double diver uses them for all dives, getting 1st dive out of 1 tank, 2nd dive out of 2nd tank it seems to make sense to me... not saying it doesn't to you, just as you pointed out the over kill on double 130cf would be overkill for me.. I mean diving all the time with those... heheh... you'd follow up with Motrin..

So I would agree with you on the set of 72 and even 100s but if double 100s, do you get 2 dives out of them? I spoke with one diver up here and he indicated that typically that's what happens, he just uses the same rig for 2 dives and doesn't have to swap out. Makes sense to me... The only draw back I would see as compared to diving with a single 120, which is what I use - not because thought through the whole thing, just cause I wanted to stay down longer, Alm 80 weren't doing it, so what's the next level.. Doubles just seem too much bulk so went with it, but now, I'm sure all divers can relate to this one, tossing around the idea of smaller Doubles.. hehehe... the grass is always greener eh???
I'll probably stick with the 120, although it's a pain to haul around and with a pony bottle, but keeping my eye on doubles 100s... sigh, just when I thought I had the system down...

Thanx for the info to all... was just curious and got the answer...
till the next one...
have you seen the Newt Suit??
heheh ROTFLMAO...
"Welcome to the NEXT Level Diver Jones...."

thanx again...

ps. x-straps, yeah surprised me too, but pretty adamant about it... and the buckle, I use it up here with drysuits as it's easier to get off on a boat or trying to balance the tank to get it off..., but on my tropical BP, it's straight, single piece and works just great too, as you correctly said, it's a matter of preference...
Lator..

Edited by fbp, 17 April 2004 - 09:49 AM.

[Diverbrian]

This last weekend I was diving dual 100's for most my dives and I think that I only hit 50 ft. on two out of eight dives. The rest were in that 30 ft. While my doubles where getting filled (that quarry owner takes forever on Nitrox as he has to PP it), I was diving my jacket with a single 120. I had no complaints about either rig.

On my doubles I use a DR steel BP and Classic Wing. It seems to work well. I also use the quick disconnect on my harness as it facilitates getting those heavy things off of me on shore.

No complaints here! The only way that I would think about adding another wing is if I wanted to dive my doubles in a wetsuit for some reason. Then I wouldn't have the drysuit to use as a spare BC.

[fbp]

Yeah, I really like the back plates, not sure if I mentioned it, but had a seaquest back from the late eighties (Still good) the went with the Zeagle Ranger? (seems like all the diver shops had a Zeagle Rep as it was the BC of choice etc..) and finally the SS back plate with screw on 8lbs... and really like it..
Zeagle is just collecting dust as I'd probalby use my Old Sea Quest as the next back up... clean and simple...

heheh on another note, just got back from a local dive and vis was 4 feet.. heheh.. geeezzz Summer is here...

Lator... :anna:

[Coo's Toe]

So with double 72s as compared to a single 130/120 or?... is it because of smaller size? eaiser to balance? or another reason... or is it the amount of air as in 142..
or do you just get 2 dives off them. 1 dive per tank? on an average?

OK, since you asked...

Double 104s as a recreational diving setup? Overkill, plain and simple. I dive this way a lot, because I am plannng on technical classes soon, and want the practice in the bigger tanks. But since I've had somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 dives in them since switching from single tank diving, it's time to think about a setup that will be more appropriate for the dives I'm actually doing, like Lubold said. The double 72s will fill this need.

A typical example to illustrate my point. I'm in the 104s ( typically filled to 3000 psi ), my buddy is in an Al 80. Both of us have decent SAC rates. We do a dive to 90-100 feet, spending 10-15 minutes at max depth, then level off in the 70's for a bit, then spend some time in the 40-50 foot range, then end the dive. Run time typically 50-60 minutes. My buddy is at 500 psi and I'm at 2000 psi +/-. We do another dive with similiar profile, now I'm at 1000 psi +/-. We do another dive with shallower profile to end the day, say 50-60 feet max depth. So two deep dives and a shallower dive without switching or filling my tanks. On the first, and probably even the second dive, I'm considerably overweighted, just from the extra gas I'm carrying with me.

Now if you look at some of the shore diving I do in this kit, it gets downright rediculous. You've been to Edmonds UW Park? I can do 5-6 dives there without filling my tanks! That's a lot of unnecessary weight to be packing with me, both in and out of the water.

So why double 72s instead of a single tank for recreational dives? Several reasons. I like the way doubles spread the weight across my back instead of centering it in the middle. Sure, I can dive a single tank without any problems, but it's just a personal preference thing. Using the smaller doubles, I still retain the added safety of using 2 independant regulators, and a nice reserve of gas on the first ( deeper ) dive. ( Some people address this issue by using a pony bottle. I'm not a big fan of pony bottles for several reasons ). With the smaller doubles, I still have enough gas for two dives, without all the extra weight. I can lift my 104s to about waist level using both hands, I can lift my 72s past my shoulders using one hand, so the difference in safety on shore entries is pronounced.

Plenty of reasons out there for me to go with a smaller setup.

[fbp]

Yah, thanx Coos...
Makes sense, my only thought would be, not to mention the overload on the first 2 dives, that on the 2nd or 3rd dive you are limiting the length by the amount of air left. With a single you know you have the same amount of air for each dive, it's just a pain carrying them around and swapping them out each dive. Also you're decreasing the amount of "Extra Air" on the third dive. Don't recall the size of 72s and set up as doubles but that, to me would be about the same? as a 120 (with a pony).. so it would be a matter of preference... balancing and loads.. the Hassel factor...

Oh well, sigh...., something to look at when the money starts rolling in again... heheh..
Thanx much...

[Coo's Toe]

I can show you a side by side comparison of the size difference when we get together for a dive...

[No Pressure]

I have been looking to BP and wings to replace my "standard" ocean cumberbund rig. Most of my diving will still be ocean, mainly with single tank (obtained on site). But I am interested in now going to places like you guys do, and do more tech style.
I just like the setup, streamlined, clean setup of wings/ harness better. I don't usually need weight, so the pockets are useless/ I have configured my own pockets for the "backup eqpt" I want with me. It turns out to be more clutter on a conventional setup.
Is there really a clearly superior (personal bias aside) comercial BP/ wings manufacurer, or is it more personal choice?.
Thanks,
Mark