18 replies to this topic

[Bubble2Bubble]

I returned lastnight from a CPR training course which was alittle more in depth than the one I received in my Recue Diver Course. We covered CPR for Infants, Child, and Adults. and also learned about AED Automatic External Defibulation. The training covered First Aid in Enviromental, Medical Emergency, and Trama. I hope you Divers and Others here really take a close look at your heart and decide if you would like to make a difference in somebodies life by knowing the basic skills of CPR for your family and friends sake. Us divers are in a very unique place in the world because we are around water where most of your drowning victims come from. and if you didnt know, CPR is the first step in helping a drowning victim till professinals/EMT's arrive. a simple step as the head tilt backwards can start the breathing process going. I didnt leave lastnight with a PHD nor a DR certificate but a basic knowledge of helping a fellow human being have a better chance for surviving an accident. You can find out more about CPR in your area by contacting your local ambulance service, fire dept, hospital or your LDS. this is just a basic overveiw of what I learned. I hope others will add to this thread with there pro's and con's.

Kiss's to all

B2B

Edited by Bubble2Bubble, 20 February 2005 - 08:37 PM.

[finGrabber]

I took the Red Cross CPR class about 20 years ago and it included 1 and 2 person CPR and resusitation, plus children and infants. It was literally an all day class and, if I remember right, was free. Is this the class you're talking about, Bubs?

[Genesis]

I took this class a couple of years or so as a "recert" and it is indeed a good thing to know.

One thing that a good instructor will tell you is that if you need to use CPR you are literally trying to make someone "un-dead".

That is, CPR is a last-ditch, he's-already-dead kind of thing. Very few people (like less than 10% - the range is anywhere from 2-5%) of the people who have CPR performed on them survive. This does not mean you shouldn't do it - rather, it means that if you attempt it and fail to revive the victim that you should not feel bad about the failure. It also means that the idea of "hurting" someone by correct (which is quite forceful!) application of chest compressions is a non-starter, since a dead person obviously doesn't care if you "hurt" them or not. If you manage to bring them back to life they will definitely prefer a couple of cracked ribs to t he alternative. And finally, it means that if you think you MIGHT be having a cardiac event don't wait until you (or the victim) collapse before calling 911!

AEDs are a different matter. They definitely save lives, but only because they can be used almost immediately after a cardiac event. In fact, a sobering reality from the American Heart Association is that if you have a sudden heart attack your odds of survival go down 10% for each minute that goes by from the event until ALCS (that would be "paramedics plus") arrive, even with prompt CPR!

Those odds are probably overstated to try to try to avoid alarming people; another study I saw a few years ago said that even if you have a sudden, no-warning heart attack in the ER of a hospital your odds of survival are only about 50%! There's no better place than the ER to be if that's gonna happen to you.....

An AED can improve the odds dramatically because IF you are in a shockable rhythm the AED can "fix" that immediately. Statistics from places like O'Hare airport, where they have placed them in all the public areas, show that something like 40% of those who have sudden cardiac problems in the terminal and get an AED applied within the first two minutes survive. That's a nearly 10-fold improvement over "CPR and call the Paramedics", and is darn impressive. In addition there have been zero recorded instances of the unit inappropriately shocking someone (they're all programmed not to do that, and apparently the programming works as intended.)

On a dive boat its a bit more troublesome. Certainly a person who has a heart attack standing on the deck has a far better shot with the AED on board than not. However, a diver in the water may not be helped much if at all, because by the time you can get them out of the water, out of their exposure suit and dry enough to apply the pads too much time may have gone by for it to matter. In addition there is a non-zero risk of YOU getting the shock (rather than or in addition to the victim) if you do this on a wet boat deck, and those devices can STOP a perfectly-good heart - so be careful if you ever need to use one on board a boat!

EFR (including but not limited to CPR) is a great skill to have, because you're far more likely to be able to use it to help someone (e.g. a person who has just had a car wreck who you come upon before the EMTs can get there.)

There are both diving-specific and non-diving-specific versions available quite inexpensively, and they're well worth the time and trouble.

[txted]

i just finished my efr class about a week ago and learned a few things had changed from what i had learned before it was worth the money in my opion,

[WreckWench]

In fact, a sobering reality from the American Heart Association is that if you have a sudden heart attack your odds of survival go down 10% for each minute that goes by from the event until ALCS (that would be "paramedics plus") arrive, even with prompt CPR!

Those odds are probably overstated to try to try to avoid alarming people; another study I saw a few years ago said that even if you have a sudden, no-warning heart attack in the ER of a hospital your odds of survival are only about 50%! There's no better place than the ER to be if that's gonna happen to you.....

As an aside...40% of the time the first warning of heart disease/failure is sudden death. Although we are talking about accident related CPR here...if you did have a sudden heart attack, 40% of the time that would have been your first warning sign AND you would die. Not good news for most of us who believe naively that we feel fine and we'll have some warning signs before anything like that would happen to us.

The good news is that other then accident related...all other occurances of heart attacks can be controlled by what you put in your mouth...or more accurately what you don't put there and eat!

[Mishelle]

As a teacher, I am erquired to renew my CPR & First-Aid yearly. Things have changed a great deal since I did my first class (cough) a FEW years ago! Anyhow, if you contact your local Fire House or Hospital, a lot of times they either offer, or can refer you to a program that offers the classes for Free, or cheap. Anyhow, I recommend it, you never know when you will need it.

[Genesis]

In fact, a sobering reality from the American Heart Association is that if you have a sudden heart attack your odds of survival go down 10% for each minute that goes by from the event until ALCS (that would be "paramedics plus") arrive, even with prompt CPR!

Those odds are probably overstated to try to try to avoid alarming people; another study I saw a few years ago said that even if you have a sudden, no-warning heart attack in the ER of a hospital your odds of survival are only about 50%! There's no better place than the ER to be if that's gonna happen to you.....

As an aside...40% of the time the first warning of heart disease/failure is sudden death. Although we are talking about accident related CPR here...if you did have a sudden heart attack, 40% of the time that would have been your first warning sign AND you would die. Not good news for most of us who believe naively that we feel fine and we'll have some warning signs before anything like that would happen to us.

The good news is that other then accident related...all other occurances of heart attacks can be controlled by what you put in your mouth...or more accurately what you don't put there and eat!

Yep.

This is one of the reasons that I get so mad at the various "agenices" when they group heart attacks in with other diving-related deaths, and call them "diving deaths."

Nearly all of those incidents would have happened on the golf course, in your car, on the beach or while fishing, and most of the time they'd end up in exactly the same way.

[diveprn]

Hey Cardiac nurse and CPR/ACLS Inst. here.
Just remember ABC'S and Pray.
Valerie

[JohnnyC]

Hey everyone!

In my opinion everyone should know CPR. Every minute after a pt falls out they loose 10% of survivability when EMS arrives. Thats with perfect CPR.. The red cross says the average person can only give good CPR for 90 seconds. Scary huh? Whats eveb scarier is that most response times by us (EMT/Paramedic) is about 5 min plus. But at least you are getting CPR. "One foot over the grave the other over a bannanna peel". Oh and when you do chest compressions try to touch their backbone. They are already dead so you can't hurt them, and they need blood circulating.

Absent minded ramblings,

Johnny

[scuba1231]

As a paramedic, I am going to insert my own two pennies. When doing CPR, it's the compressions that matter most. Your body will retain some oxygen reserve but it won't help unless the blood is being circulated. Chest compressions without ventilations still circulates blood to the brain. Ventilations without compressions on the other hand will do nothing (in the absence of a pulse).

[intotheblue]

it's the compressions that matter most.  Your body will retain some oxygen reserve but it won't help unless the blood is being circulated.  Chest compressions without ventilations still circulates blood to the brain.  Ventilations without compressions on the other hand will do nothing (in the absence of a pulse).

In fact, a new movement is to promote the Chest compressions to the exclusion of the ventilations, since many don't ventilate properly and just interrupt the compressions to do them... and minimize both's effectiveness. It will be interesting to see if that catches on. Many people I have taught can't do the procedure properly... but it is taught now so that people don't have "pressure to perform"... so to speak. When I took my first course 30 years ago, there was someone aggressively assuring we "got it" and did it right to get a cert. I remember more from that course than even the instructor trainer courses I've taken since... Of couse we learned infant/2 rescuer, and everything else back then. I encourage anyone taking such training to take it with much seriousness... and realize you may be able to save a loved one some day. It may seem overwhelming when you take the course, but repetition of practice and effort should make you confident and capable. It's more than just a card!!! It's saving lives.

Get your O2 administration training as well... and AED if you can...(they're not hard at all)

ITB...

[Mitch0129]

When I took my CPR as part of my AOW, I was told by the EMT who taught the class to "just do it". He told me that even any CPR done is better than none and does help the chances of the victim surviving when the professional help arrives.

A case in point, there was a story about how Drew Rosenhaus, a sports agent who represents many NFL players, helped revived a 3-year-old boy who was face-down in a pool. While over 100 people were standing around doing nothing, he jumped in, got the boy out, and started CPR. By his own admission, he did not think he did it right but what he did was enough to help the boy until paramedics arrived.

I have yet to ever have to do this but I hope that I will know what to do should I ever find myself in the same situation.

[dustbowl diver]

When I took my CPR as part of my AOW, I was told by the EMT who taught the class to "just do it". He told me that even any CPR done is better than none and does help the chances of the victim surviving when the professional help arrives.

A case in point, there was a story about how Drew Rosenhaus, a sports agent who represents many NFL players, helped revived a 3-year-old boy who was face-down in a pool. While over 100 people were standing around doing nothing, he jumped in, got the boy out, and started CPR. By his own admission, he did not think he did it right but what he did was enough to help the boy until paramedics arrived.

I have yet to ever have to do this but I hope that I will know what to do should I ever find myself in the same situation.

For us sports fans, the question would be, if we were to find Drew Rosenhaus face down in a pool, would we jump in to save him???

[Walter]

I don't know Drew Rosenhaus, but ya gotta try.

[drdiver]

For us sports fans, the question would be, if we were to find Drew Rosenhaus face down in a pool, would we jump in to save him???

Good one, DBD!

and that's a serious question.....don't think I woulda done it for Musberger.