21 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

As a recovering alkie and drug addict (for almost 10 years now) my perspective on the topic is this, when i was active, i thought the only persons life i was affecting was me since i have never been married and dont have any kids. In the process of getting sober, i realized how wrong i was, and have made the nessecary amends, i was lucky enough that the damage was actually repairable. As far as trusting someone who is actively using while diving, even if they arent under the influence at the time? I DONT THINK SO!!!!! But thats just my humble opinion.

MARK

Charity,

All that I will advise is to PLEASE reread this post! This appears to be the voice of experience talking from a point of view that few of us wish to see.....

From another point of view...

I made the mistake of trusting loved one's words when they said, "I won't drink before I drive" or "I'll stay clean for so long". I have lost one of them that was very close to me that told me that she would never drink and drive. What a fool that I was to believe that she was sober in that car when I got word in another state of her car accident. Three days later I was forced to order the @!#@ing plug pulled on her life support.

Please be EXTREMELY wary about trusting the word of an active drug abuser.

With the known addictive properties of cocaine, I would be highly suprised if these people can go thirty days without taking it.

[Sophia]

Wow, extremely interesting topic.

My background: If not for TV, I would think Pot were the only illegal drug. 'Law and Order' is so edifying!

What I would do: Not dive with them. Dive with us.

[Genesis]

I equip to dive solo all the time anyway - so if someone wants to dive with me, they can.

With that said, cocaine has this nasty way of causing heart attacks in otherwise healthy people. The more you use it, the higher the risk.

A heart attack underwater is bad news, of course.

Cocaine also can precipitate panic attacks. That's bad underwater too.

So would I dive in open water with such a person, with my usual (light doubles, etc) equipment? Sure. If he cacks him/herself, that sucks, but it is extremely unlikely that their poor judgement will put me at personal risk of injury or death.

Would I go 4,000 feet back into a zero-flow cave on a scooter with that same perosn, where if my scooter fails I must ride out with my buddy on HIS scooter or die? (and vice-versa, if his fails and he must ride out on mine - AND keep his cool)

No - because in THAT situation if they screw the pooch I'm likely to assume water temperature along with them.

Then again in that latter situation there are a LOT of people who I wouldn't do the dive with who are NOT into drugs.....

Edited by Genesis, 04 April 2005 - 04:10 PM.

[RichardB]

There's another issue that would prevent me from diving with known drug users. I have very little respect and a great amount of contempt for the less intelligent and intentionally stupid.

These people are statistically lower on the preverbal food chain and some argue that society as a whole would be better off if they were eliminated from the gene pool via their own illicit acts. Few members of our society express the rationale for this view more completely than those that abuse drugs.

While I (like others here) consider myself a very self sufficient diver fully capable of solo diving and not reliant on others to cover my short comings, I have too much respect for myself to dive with the intentionally stupid. Other than this, as a parent, showing tolerence for those actions by allowing association may express the wrong message and I refuse to lower my standards in this way.

Other's may feel differently and have no problem diving with want-to-be losers....more power to them, I'll happily wave from shore or point them out as a bad example.

Edited by RichardB, 05 April 2005 - 11:42 PM.

[Diverbrian]

Ah! There is another rub. I really do understand why otherwise intelligent choose to take illict drugs. I really do have patience until it comes down to doing something that requires me to trust an ACTIVELY PRACTICING drug abuser.

"But for the grace of God Go I" is one of my personal mottos on this. Many drug addicts/ alcoholics are masterful manipulators. They really couldn't get away with the behavior for the years that many of them have without that skill. Many of us would be suprised at the number of drug abusers that are outwardly "successful" people. They tend to be charming and engaging. These skills are rewarded in upper management of companies. Oh, and try to keep track of all of the excuses/lies/rationalizations if you are outright stupid. Add in the organizational skills required to maintain a three ring circus of a life over the course of time that they have been abusing drugs and you can see why not all drug abusers are lying in a ghetto.

Having said all of that, note what I said about trusting the word of any actively practicing drug abuser. You can't! Many times you are talking to whatever drug that they are taking and not your so-called friend. The drug "wants" the addict to want more. It will "talk" them into doing anything do more drugs. In this position friends/family most often turn into people that get lied to/cheated/stolen from to allow the user to keep doing what they want to do. Many times the best thing that you can do for them is let them create their own problems and fall into the pit of their own making.

There is help, but it is a lifelong path and NOT easy. It is not an easy path for those that have had there lives affected by close contact with these people. But, it is do-able for both situations.

For now, until these so-called "friends" really quit (as in cold turkey), I would recommend finding some other potential dive buddies.

[Diverbrian]

I equip to dive solo all the time anyway - so if someone wants to dive with me, they can.

With that said, cocaine has this nasty way of causing heart attacks in otherwise healthy people. The more you use it, the higher the risk.

A heart attack underwater is bad news, of course.

Cocaine also can precipitate panic attacks. That's bad underwater too.

So would I dive in open water with such a person, with my usual (light doubles, etc) equipment? Sure. If he cacks him/herself, that sucks, but it is extremely unlikely that their poor judgement will put me at personal risk of injury or death.

Would I go 4,000 feet back into a zero-flow cave on a scooter with that same perosn, where if my scooter fails I must ride out with my buddy on HIS scooter or die? (and vice-versa, if his fails and he must ride out on mine - AND keep his cool)

No - because in THAT situation if they screw the pooch I'm likely to assume water temperature along with them.

Then again in that latter situation there are a LOT of people who I wouldn't do the dive with who are NOT into drugs.....

I equip to solo dive.

But, if I planned the dive as a "buddy" dive, I will make every effort to bring my buddy back that won't turn me into a victim. If I feel that they are an accident waiting to happen, I will do both of us a favor and NOT dive with them. If they get themselves killed and I could see it coming (like I should be able to with the knowledge that someone is an active "user"), I would be negligent in letting the dive happen with my consent from a moral standpoint (In my value system). Legal isn't what I care about if the person is dead. I don't need Jiminy Cricket with the Conscience badge chirping at me because I basically let someone commit sanctioned suicide in front of me and could have stopped it.

If I jumped into the water as a solo diver, the "user" is the boat captain's/ local lifeguard's (if a shore dive and such an animal is around) problem.

Oh, and on a lighter note, if I can't SWIM out, I don't go in. Scooters are neat toy to me, but I wouldn't use one where I am actually relying on the thing to get me out. So you wouldn't need to worry about me asking about that cave dive.

[intotheblue]

they are useing is coke.  They said that it takes 3 days to get out of your system and that they would just not do it that many days before the dive. 

Charity

Charity... The best answer is to "run away, run away" as stated earlier. However, if you ever go on a dive trip and end up on a boat with people you don't know, you will likely eventually end up diving amongst some divers that use drugs and use them frequently. That's not good, just a likelihood. Many divers like to "PARTY", and there are many that are into drugs "recreationally" like they are into diving. I'm sure there are even some on the "board". Best to always have your "known" buddy regardless of where you dive, and I personally will avoid diving with people I know are "using" drugs before diving. Even drinking alcohol a day or more before can affect your body chemistry... reducing hydration and if within a day (eg. the night) before will likely leave you a little less "capable" even if only used in "moderate" amounts. Wisdom isn't always popular... but it will benefit you in the long run. The older we are, the easier it is to pay attention to wisdom, learned from experience. I like to remember that SCUBA is "life support under water" and consider that anything that impairs my ability puts my life (and others') more at risk. I enjoy challenging dives, but I don't stack the deck against me before I even suit up... Best wishes on your decision.

ITB...