33 replies to this topic

[Dennis]

My course was pretty good. Lots of personal attention since there was only two of us in the class. It just took a year to get through it. Boy, was I ready to get in the ocean when I did my open water dives.

[VADiver]

I found PADI AOW left a lot to be desired for. The course material didn't really go into much more than I already knew; I just need the card to get onto some boats. I understand the instructor has a lot to do with it, but it seems like PADI keeps the AOW course vauge so the diver will have to pay more money to get the needed training.

I feel AOW should incorporate aspects of Rescue Diver into the curriculum. AOW should be about developing and fine tuning skills, not underwater photography or naturalist. The student will get more out of it of they reinforce buddy diving, OOA situations, valve drills and fining techniques.


(Sorry for the slight rant)

[sea nmf]

Walter,

I can't imagine that you need to learn anything from this. Your course sounds perfect for beginners.

Anyway, the course was fine. It followed the outline. It could have stressed bouyancy more. I think this would entail more in-water time and that isn't practical if someone is teaching for a business.

What made it for me were the DM's. They turned out to become close friends, one even marrying the girl who took the class with me. What I mean to say is that the instructors and staff can make all the difference. Encouragement to continue diving to get experience is key.

I know that much of the complaint is that PADI is just a money machine. But knowing what I now know, I believe I would have paid additional money to dive with the instructor and/or DM's after certification on pleasure dives, or better yet, experience dives. I was lucky in that I got to do that anyway for free. I learned so much more during those dives (drysuit , deep, emergencies, etc.). I took AOW , Deep Diver, and Rescue. I'm glad I took all of them (well, DD maybe wasn't necessary but I got to dance underwater with my instructor!), but Rescue was the best.

-becky

[Walter]

Becky,

I'm always fine tuning my methods.

[cmt489]

I recall my OW course being very good. While the overall class was large, they had enough instructors to only have 6 students per instructor. Classes were not rushed and everyone had a personalized attention.

My first two OW dives were done here (in a wetsuit - never been so cold in my life!) and there were 4 students, 1 instructor and two DMs. Finished my OW dives in the Phillippines where I had an absolutely amazing instructor. Also did my AOW with him as well. My ex and I were his only students for those segments. It was compeltely personal and tailored to meet our needs and training requirements.

All in all I was very pleased with my dive training and, quite frankly, had never seen mass dive groups on a boat until I went to Roatan. Up until this time, all dive trips had been very personal and small and, I must admit, that I preferred them that way and will continue to pay extra to enjoy them in the future when I am travelling to areas that have this option.

[skybird]

My class just finished this past weekend. Never really thought about it as "class" was private lessons. The one on one was wonderful! I started the first day in the open water of the quarry ( after a couple of hours of instruction and getting fitted to equipment) Had lots of skills practice......"book work" was between dives, sometimes by the water, sometimes floating IN the water. My instructor stressed saftey, stressed we were in this for FUN and was not into Pain, Fear or Danger. Stressed to me to never hesitate to abort a dive for any reason whatsoever! We had lots of "play time" as well and skills practice in lessons. There was not a specified amount of time each lesson, or specific time or day. I would just go spend all afternoon at the quarry. Whenever I go to the quarry now, since I am certified, I will still dive with the people I learned with....It was a wonderful expreience and I feel I had one of the best ow classes available ( though I don't have anything to compare it to)

Skybird

[PerroneFord]

Talk about getting in the way-back machine...

Lets see, the year was 1994.

I took the class on a whim. I had always wanted to learn, and so I passed the diveshop one day, and instead of just motoring on like I had 1000 times before, I went in, poked around, and signed up.

My instructor was nice. A large fellow even by my standards. He tried to give us a good respect for the water and seemed to care about what he was doing. There were too many in the class. Maybe 6 or 8. He was very patient, I remember that.

I remember doing my confined water dives in a spring.. in November. And nearly freezing to death! And then I did my OW dives in December. Fortunately I had a better wetsuit or something so I didn't freeze. Over the years I tried to stay in tune with the goings on in diving as I am in a MECCA for spring and cave diving, and the ocean diving near here isn't too shabby either.

I've recently gotten interested in diving again and have paid a LOT more attention to the level of instructors, and course curriculum. From what I see, very few people seem to be teaching the stuff in OW that I think should be covered. My friend certified SSI 2 months ago, and I talked to him about his class.

While all OW classes need to cover basics, and teach you to hopefully not kill yourself underwater, I think remarkably little time is spent on buoyancy, trim, finning, and safety. I can remember doing table problems in class, and doing ok with them (missing some) simply because it was just words and numbers on a page. I had no real appreciate for what a surface interval was, or why it was necessary other than to get the nitrogen out.

No one talks about gas management. I suspect like most, I was told to be on the anchor line with so many PSI and be on the boat with so many PSI. But nothing in class about turn pressure, or SAC rates, or anything that might give some clue as to how to actually ACHIEVE getting back to the line with the proper gas. Not once did my instructor, or my friends instructor broach the subject of trim underwater. Something I would think ANY diver could benefit from. No information was given regarding proper weighting or how to achieve it other than the very basics. It was assumed that everyone in the world used a console and a long octupus hose. And they all had yellow face covers. And of course, when the time came to buddy breathe, we'd all be on our knees...

All in all, I am very happy to have had OW. But I think it left me in a dangerous position of not understanding a LOT about diving including some of the dangers. To be honest, I am glad I didn't dive a lot after getting certified as the things I've learned since then will make me far safer.

I am hoping my AOW will be better, and I know DIRF class will be.

[jholley309]

I just got certified in August (PADI OW); in fact, I still don't have my permanent c-card. Here's the good, the bad and the ugly from my experience:

The Good: came out with just enough knowledge to avoid killing myself while breathing air under pressure. Actually, I'm going to make a radical statement here: the most valuable thing I learned in either the class/confined water dives or the open water checkout dives is that PADI doesn't make you a safe diver. Neither does NAUI, or SSI, or any of the other certifying agencies: you make yourself a safe diver. PADI just gives you the tools to do that with: enough basic physiology to understand why it's bad to hold your breath while ascending, enough basic information to get around under your own power underwater, and enough problem management knowledge (barely) to be able to know what to do when you get your underwater camera hung on your regulator hose, yanking the second stage out of your mouth just as your buddy accidentally smacks you in the face and floods your mask for you. That book that come with the crew pack has the basics in it, and it should leave you with one fact indelibly printed on your brain:

PADI isn't going to teach you everything all at once. There's always something else to learn.

Okay, the Bad: big class sizes, both in the pool (12 students, offset somewhat by the fact that the 1 instructor had help from 2 DMs and an Assistant Instructor) and on the checkout dive (10 students, 1 instructor, no help). I would have preferred some additional "play time" to practice bouyancy control, stricter adherance to the 5-point pre-dive procedure (not BWRAF, the other one), and a LOT more emphasis on dive planning, which in my case was limited to working out pressure groups after the dives. (Okay, you can go ahead and shudder now.) Being the independent study kind of guy that I am, and having a natural capacity for absorbing information both visually and aurally, I didn't think PADI OW training was as bad as some would have us believe. A lot is left to the individual to research and find out for themselves, to be sure, but if you actually do the knowledge reviews in the manual the information you need to know is covered.

Now the Ugly: A lot is left to the individual to research and find out for themselves. :lam: I just happen to be the personality type that handles self-study well; when I got to the pool and then the open water dives, I felt that I was mainly there to demonstrate to the instructor's satisfaction that I was capable of diving without unduly endangering myself or my buddy. Not everyone is like me, however. I must admit that I'm a little choosy about dive buddies, and I'm never really comfortable with a new one at first; it takes a little while for me to assess their level of training and (more importantly) their commitment to using their training effectively. Dive planning, for instance. Or a good buddy check. Or a 5-point pre-dive procedure. Come to think of it, all the things that were pretty weak in my class!

To reiterate my earlier radical statement (which I'm sure is going to cause some consternation), it's not necessarily PADI's responsibility to make you a safe diver, and neither is it your buddy's responsibility: it's your responsibility to make yourself a safe diver by constantly seeking to expand your knowledge. That's why boards like this are such valuable resources, as well as various trade publications. Heck, that's why I'm here: I know just enough to know that there's more to know.

Just my coupla pennies...

Cheers!

Jim

[TraceMalin]

I pretty much began in gear that looked like Lattitude's.

The first night of the PDIC course was spent snorkeling in the pool after the Jeppesen video and a lecture. I grew up doing it and thought the horsecollar BC and the constant "popping" when you breathe through the snorkel were stupid. I learned things about several surface dives and entries and exits that were interesting to me as a 14 year-old. Our ratio of instructors to students was excellent. 4 instructors for 4 students. 2 were in the water with us and 2 were watching and assisting from the deck. We did our evaulation swim and water tread. We learned to clear masks while breathing through snorkels, clear snorkels by blast and expansion. We learned various kicks and turns without using the hands, survival floating, resting position, one-legged, two-legged, and kelp surface dives, how to equalize during descent, underwater swimming, ascending while protecting the head, no mask snorkel swims, weight belt drills, and they kept us snorkeling laps until time ran out.

We had 6 nights of training learning to clear our masks, clear the regulators three ways, buddy breathing and air sharing with the octopus reg, do ascents without assistance, breathing vest ascents where you blow air into your BCD to start ascending & replace your regulator, auto inflator vest ascents and buddy breathing vest ascents using all 3 methods of ascents as well as octopus reg vest ascents using all three methods, remove & replace the tank with a buddy & by ourselves, do emergency ascents, properly weight ourselves, stay neutral underwater and off the bottom and prep for open water.

The class ended as winter began so I was invited to train with my instructors in the pool for two or three more classes until summer. I liked three of my instructors, but one guy who was a cop just wanted to watch his girlfriend and had a personality problem. He was fired after he hit one guy over the head with an oar during open water training. I completed my open water training in Lake Wallenpaupack 4 days after my fifteenth birthday and headed off to Canada and the Great Lakes to make my first dive trip to the St. Lawrence and Lake Ontario.

I met a guy in Geometry class who had been certified by NAUI. We pretty much had similar training at the time, but I was more into diving. We exchanged manuals & I began buying all the diving books I could from which to learn and I started taking advanced courses. We didn't have recommended depth limits and could do dives down to 190 feet on air because the tables said we could. Luckily for us, we were surounded by lakes and as teens we wanted to stay warm so our max dives in the lakes were 60 to 70 feet or 80 and 90 feet at Dutch Springs (we didn't know where the hole was), but most often we stayed around 30 feet to make our air last. We did lots of shore diving in New England and maxed out at about 30 feet there. So, I had lots of shore diving & dive planning experience (since I usually led) by the time I reached 17 or 18 and wanted to start diving deeper. Then, I routinely made wall and blue hole dives down to 180 and 190 & forget about it once computers were in use! But, combining being a lifeguard with, age & a certain amount of growing maturity with becoming a dive pro & I started viewing lots of my deep diving as a little barnstormy (I'd do deep dives on a single AL80 for example) and I started to scale back into safer dives.

So, the bad was that there was more emphasis on swim ability & boldness & less emphasis on being safe over all in the diving industry. My instructors were fine with me diving alone as a kid. I'd come in to get constant fills and talk about where I'd been diving that day and was going next and what I found or saw while by myself & was never told not to dive alone. I don't think it was until the 90's that boats off Jersey started telling divers they needed pony bottles or doubles with isolators?

I'd ask if at 37 I could put the myth to rest that there are no old bold divers, but I guess wising up around age 20 means I stopped being bold while young.

Now, according to my cave instructor, in order to be a cave diver, I need to drink, smoke, !@$$ whores and be stupid. I've only got one of these mastered.

Trace

[BabyDuck]

hmm, i've got more of the caver things than you do...

my ow was private. i met the instructor on the internet & he said he'd cert me for expenses, so i got in the car the next morning & drove to florida. the good was private personal just-for-me instruction, he was using a bp/w and long hose (cave certed) so i was exposed to that type o' stuff way early, we were staying somewhere for free, and we were drinking a lot.

the bad was that the pool was very shallow (the family we were staying with's 6ft backyard pool - hard to stay under) and cold (63). very hard to practice neutral buoyancy there & had to work on that in the ow checkouts only. because i was only there until friday, i didn't have a lot of 'free' dive time to practice since the pool wasn't really good for that. that's not marc's fault, though. he was a good instructor who didn't teach much beyond the standards, but did talk about learning beyond the standards. he emphasized that there are different trains of thought about diving (introduced me to dir, etc) and that i needed to be prepared to keep learning.

this worked for me because i grew up on the river & am totally at home in/on the water. none of the diving stuff like mask or reg recovery was scary to do at all. i would have liked more advanced technique instruction like frog kicks, but i got them with my dive buddies' help, so no biggie. still can't make backwards work, though.

[konascubagirl]

The good part: FREE private OW class in Kona, HI. New boyfriend who just happened to be a PADI instructor.

The bad part: Boyfriend turned out to be a pig.

KSG

[PerroneFord]

The bad part: Boyfriend turned out to be a pig.

KSG

The Good part: I'm not a pig
The Bad part: Kona is a long walk and swim from Florida!

[Walter]

The good part: FREE private OW class in Kona, HI. New boyfriend who just happened to be a PADI instructor.

The bad part: Boyfriend turned out to be a pig.

KSG

Tell us what was good about the course other than its cost. I happen to think that one of the least important aspects of training. I'd rather pay more for good training.

Edited by Walter, 09 December 2005 - 05:59 AM.

[Dejah]

I would have to say most of my training was good. However if I were to do it over I'd choose a different month than November. The only bad experience about it all was when we did our check-out dives the water temps were in the mid 50's and outside temps in the upper 40's... before we got into the water we were advised to use thick hoods which I didn't have a problem with because of it being so cold, the problem later was we never learned nor were told about purging a hood so when I decended I heard popping and crackling in my right ear which freaked me out a bit, later on after dealing with an ear infection I realized I ended up ever so slightly blocking my right ear and still very occasionally have problems with clearing it today.. :dltears:

[konascubagirl]

The good part: FREE private OW class in Kona, HI. New boyfriend who just happened to be a PADI instructor.

The bad part: Boyfriend turned out to be a pig.

KSG

Tell us what was good about the course other than its cost. I happen to think that one of the least important aspects of training. I'd rather pay more for good training.

I agree Walter, cost is NOT the most important factor in dive training. What was good :

1. warm, clear water...as a newbie you are stressed enough without dealing with the cold.
2. Being a solo student was awesome. I am not so sure I would've wanted to make my first open water dive in a group so large that my instructor might have "missed" a mistake I was making.
3. Did I mention the warm water?

The bad part: Boyfriend turned out to be a pig.

KSG

The Good part: I'm not a pig
The Bad part: Kona is a long walk and swim from Florida!

Aloha P!
I am CERTAIN you are not a pig!
Kona IS a long way from Florida, but I'll see all you guys at Trace's gig in Ginnie Springs!

PS Which Blue Grotto do you refer to at the bottom of your posts?