28 replies to this topic

[GentDiver]

I would like to add a "hidden" value that I get from the SD trips. That hidden value is the fact that I actually get to know some of the people before going on the trip. This is a big deal (at least to me) because with other trips you never really know what/who you are in store. The NC trip will be my third trip with SD and I already know some of the people from previous trips. I also am very confident that I will have a great time both diving and not diving.

Lets not forgot that after the trip if you want to stay in contact with someone S.D. it makes it so much easier.

Based on these things, I am absolutely willing to pay more for a S.D. trip then I would for another trip.

Scott

:lam:

[cmt489]

I agree with Bubski and Scott - even if I did find that I paid more for a trip with SD.com than I did finding the trip on my own, the value of the interaction I have and friendship that I gain here far outweigh that cost. Otherwise I would just be attending a dive resort as another anonymous customer, knowing no one!

[chinacat46]

Will you pay that cuz you are going with SD? I think not.

Chuck,

You cannot speak for anyone BUT yourself. If you had said "Will I pay...instead if will YOU pay...that would be one thing. But, bottom line you DO NOT think for me. So, your quote here is incorrect. You cann't answer that question for me.

What I was trying to get at with this post was that we all have a different idea of value. I find it interesting that you say as soon as you see an SD trip you are interested in you go to other sites to compare, but at the same one of your complaints is that you had to book your own air travel for SD trips. So, again, we value our time differently. Neither one of us is right or wrong. ITS ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER!! All I am asking is that you please not make fun of me (or anyone else) with comments like "Now, I know some of you are SD lovers and bleed SD blue..." There is something to be said for loyaty, but one reason I am loyal to SD is that for my life style, and preferences, they give ME the best value. Becuase you differ with that, does not make me wrong for me. Comments like the one I just quoted are just not necessary, and are out of line. I don't deserve to be harassed because I see value differently than you do. Its hurtful, and thats not what this site is about.

For the one trip I have gone on, SD charged exactly the same as what was advertised on the boats WEB page. So, this means, unless the company comp'ed her for bringing the group, Kamala was paying her own way. And more than likely she paid her own airfare. For my next planned trip, I have no idea if I could go cheaper or not. I don't care to spend my time researching to find out. But, I do know I am paying an extra $600 in airfare to get to LAX. I'm sure it would be cheaper to get to Fiji from Hawaii. However, without the group, the single supplement is $600, plus, again, I would be traveling alone, which I don't want to do.

If anyone is aware of ways to get less expensive trips than SD is offering, I think the best thing for that person to do is PM one of the trip mods with the info. Seems to me that would be much better than posting on the board you have found "better values". After all, how many businesses would allow a customer to post on their own WEB site info on the competition??

And a point about roommates. Kamala does her best to do same sex roommates, however, sometimes genders on trips just don't work out. On the Saba trip, my roommate was a guy. I could NEVER imagine allowing some unknown, unseen consolidator room me with anyone, and there is no way I would accept rooming under these circumstances with a male I had never met before.

Well Ali I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But some of you do bleed the SD blue. I've got nothing against loyalty and I enjoy this site and appreciate and respect Kamala as a business person. As for "Will you pay that cuz you are going with SD? I think not" That does apply to me I said "I" think not. You are always welcome to pay an extra $300 to Kamala I'm sure she would accept it but I really don't think you will. So when you go to Fiji if you want to pay an extra $300 go ahead. R U going to??? "I" still think not.

Actually I sent a PM to Kamala and another memeber on June 5th and never heard back from her about it. Not until I did post did I hear from Kamala. I know the date cuz I still have the original PM in my sent PM box.

You are right we do value things differently. Since I've traveled a lot I have a lot of sites bookmarked though and it usually doesn't take long to do a comparison. Shopping for flights though can be time consuming since deals change every week.

Once again I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings but I did say "I think not" and the I means me not you.

[drdiver]

So, again, we value our time differently. Neither one of us is right or wrong. ITS ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER!!

And that pretty much says it all. Kamala is free to charge whatever she wants for her trips--as we are free to choose whatever trips we want. I can perfectly believe that people are willing to pay extra to go on dive trips with people that they have met on the board or on other SD trips or SD activities--that's brand loyalty and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Clearly a lot of people really enjoy them and I hope more continue to enjoy them. In my case, my level of service expectations were not met--so I won't. Other peoples were and are met and perhaps even exceeded. I'm happy for them. I have plenty of dive trip opportunities to choose from and am a happy diver because of it. Viva le difference!!!

[WreckWench]

In my case, my level of service expectations were not met--so I won't. Other peoples were and are met and perhaps even exceeded.

DrDiver is right...in some cases as a single woman operation...at least on the financial end of things...I do not meet everyone's service expectations nor even my own for that matter. And in some cases like DrDiver's it took me entirely too long to refund a trip deposit to him. However, now that we have our new accounting system in place, this should not be an issue in the future. Refunds will be sent directly to your checking account via ACH thus eliminating the issuance of a check, mailing it, etc.

Perhaps one day DrDiver will come and enjoy one of our trips...and perhaps not. Those that do certainly seem to enjoy themselves and more importantly the other awesome members of our community!

Don't get me wrong...we have had a number of growing pains and I'm sure we'll have a few more before its all over, but that is good. We are growing and hopefully we'll reach the point soon where we are profitable so that we'll not only be around for many years to come but we can offer even more trips and services to our members!

Actually I sent a PM to Kamala and another memeber on June 5th and never heard back from her about it.

As for Chuck, I did not get the original pm from you...I wish I had...however I was still locked into the contract so I doubt I could have done much to improve it. However, the more information I have, the better I can do in the future.

I will say this...our goal is to find you great dive trips for a great price. Sometimes that price is less than anything comparable in the marketplace! Sometimes that price is the same or slightly more than what you can find it for. And sometimes that price is higher. All of our divers are free to price shop our trips to other trips being offered elsewhere or what they can do on their own. However, when you do you are comparing 'apples to oranges' as Bubski says...since our primary goal is not to be the cheapest dive trip in the market but to be the BEST BUDDYLESS & SINGLE DIVE TRIP in the market!

Our trips cater to the needs of single and buddyless divers...other trips do not. Our trips factor in entertainment and scheduled activities that you can choose to participate in...other trips do not. Our trips allow you to have great social interaction often with equal numbers of men and women....other trips do not. Our trips allow you to meet and interact with members on the trip well before you ever get there...other trips certainly don't do that.

So if you can join us on a trip...that is great. If you can't we hope we'll see you on a future one.

Now...everyone PLEASE start paying me $300 more than what Chuck can get a trip for so we can start to make some money here!!! PLEASE!!!!

[chinacat46]

Now...everyone PLEASE start paying me $300 more than what Chuck can get a trip for so we can start to make some money here!!! PLEASE!!!! 

I'd also like to add that I never mentioned the competition or which trip it was that was overpriced in any of my posts. Only that I had found a trip overpriced by $300.

Edited by chinacat46, 02 August 2005 - 05:12 PM.

[drdiver]

Perhaps one day DrDiver will come and enjoy one of our trips...and perhaps not. Those that do certainly seem to enjoy themselves and more importantly the other awesome members of our community!

You can be sure I'll keep an open mind about it---I do think a trip would be a blast!

(And I hope you do get that $300 dollar difference!!!!--Profit is a lovely thing--in the immortal words of Charles Dickens and Mr. Micawber--

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expendture twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.")

[chinacat46]

Hey I enjoyed the trip I went on to Saba and will probably go on others in the future. Hopefully Kamala will work with the consolidator and get better prices and also make a profit. I'd like to see this site and the trips continue but I'm still entitled to "my" opinion. Sorry if it offends some of you but I am what I am and thats all that I am Ugh Ugh Ugh!(In my best Popeye laugh)

[WreckWench]

Now...everyone PLEASE start paying me $300 more than what Chuck can get a trip for so we can start to make some money here!!! PLEASE!!!! 

I'd also like to add that I never mentioned the competition or which trip it was that was overpriced in any of my posts. Only that I had found a trip overpriced by $300.

True my dear...true! But the sheer volume of the posts mentioning paying $300 more than what you could find it for was leading me to believe that I've been leaving money on the table!!

So PLEASE start sending me those checks for $300 more than what I've got all but one trip priced for!!!

And if not that...well how about sending me your money for a Premier Membership? Heck that's only $25!!! Unfortunately we aren't making much of the 'P' word...aka Profit...and since its not likely you all are going to pay me $300 over the price of the trip...we'll have to find other ways!

[drdiver]

And if not that...well how about sending me your money for a Premier Membership? Heck that's only $25!!! Unfortunately we aren't making much of the 'P' word...aka Profit...and since its not likely you all are going to pay me $300 over the price of the trip...we'll have to find other ways! teeth.gif

That's the travel business, ruthless efficiency and tight margins. ..

But you ought to talk to the Mona Monkeys while you're in Grenada--they'll come up with some "other ways"--they're wild animals, you know."!!!

[peterbj7]

I was asked if I could add a useful contribution to this discussion. The answer is a definite "no", and here goes proving it.....

When I'm planning a trip for me I start out by looking around at all the options to select the macro location - in dive terms, will it be the Caribbean or the Red Sea? If the Caribbean, then hotel-based or a liveaboard? If hotel based, which country? In all of these decisions I am weighing up the benefit to me against the cost to me, where benefit is obviously not defined financially, but in fact neither is cost, or at least not exclusively. The time I will expend is probably more precious to me than $, at least if I am in employment with limited available leave. The envisaged benefit will clearly relate to my expectations and desires, and the first problem I have is deciding whether the proposed trip can possibly meet those. As John Cleese said in the classic BBC comedy "Fawlty Towers" when a guest complained about the view from her bedroom window in his mythical hotel some way from the sea in the southern English seaside town of Torquay, "This is a Torquay hotel and the view is of Torquay. What do you expect to see from a Torquay hotel window - the Eiffel Tower, Sydney Harbour Bridge, the Hanging Towers of Babylon?"

So the first step in hoping to meet your expectations is having expectations which reasonably can be met. I had one diver complain two years ago that we "expected her" to go diving when the seas were rough. Yet she had timed her visit for a period of rough weather, and was insistent on diving. She left a dissatisfied customer, and I wasn't surprised. Now, if we had gone out and found we had forgotten the boat ladder and expected her to climb back on the boat without, or if we left dock an hour later than stated, or told her we wouldn't take her out because she was the only customer and despite her pre-booking it wasn't economic for us to take her out (all of which have happened to me as a customer) then her reasonable expectations would certainly not have been met.

Now, if instead of a commercial diving operation we were just friends and had offered to take her along free when we went out, then she would possibly not have just cause to complain when these problems occurred. Or is that so? - not going out at all is fine if we've decided we don't want to after all, isn't it? No, if it's the UK and she got up at 4am to drive for three hours to the dock only to find out that we decided last night to call it off then she would have every right to be pissed off, even though no money was to change hands. She would have made a considerable investment, in time, even though we would see no benefit from it.

Then supposing we operate a Rolls Royce operation charging inflated prices and the boat is a bit beat up and dirty and the divemasters the same, she would have just cause to complain, whereas the operation down the beach might have much worse boats and divemasters but only charge 1/3 of our prices, and be considered a good operation considering the price. The strength of the relative opinions of the two operations would probably depend on the funds available to the customer.

A question often raised is whether a service is cheap or expensive. For example, I've just charged a couple more than double for some technical diving than they might have paid at home in the USA. Does that mean I'm providing poor value? Well, I might be but the facts don't prove it, as they take no account of the cost of providing the service. I supplied helium to them for $1:15 per cubic foot, way, way more than they might pay at home. Yet I have less than 10% mark-up in that figure, whereas most US operations would have a much greater mark-up built in. Helium is just much more expensive here.

Another example. I was visited a while ago by ex-pats who said they ran a dive center in the Honduran Bay Islands, on Utila. No proof but no reason to disbelieve them. They asked if I could take them diving for the prices they charged, so I asked them what they were. They were supposedly giving people two dives for US$25, less than I charge for one dive, and including free equipment which isn't included in my prices. When I told them that the fuel cost alone for taking one of my boats out to a dive site for two dives (returning to the dock between dives, so two round trips) was more than the gross income I received from two divers at my regular prices, they didn't believe me. So does a diver visiting Utila get better value than if he comes to Belize? If you're an impecunious student your answer will undoubtedly be "yes", but if you're a well-to-do middle aged professional taking several diving holidays a year your answer may well be different.

I'm sure I'm rambling so I'll wrap up soon. The bottom line is that it's about expectations, and most of that is subjective, not objective. And whether they're reasonable from the service provider's point of view. In the context of the SD trip that apparently went wrong, several people have implied they would forgive a few "cockups" if the intentions had been genuine and the problems mostly unpredictable. Given what I know of Kamala and the job she does (I haven't met or spoken to her yet) I would be prepared to forgive quite a few of those.

And I've met professional complainers. In the past I just used to avoid them, but now I have to smile serenely, agree with everything they say, and then get back to running my business. I'm sure none of the people who were so critical of the trip in question that they walked off in a huff, never to return (I hope), would fall into this category.....?

So there you are, I think. I hope some of this makes more sense to others than it does to me.

[drdiver]

Another example. I was visited a while ago by ex-pats who said they ran a dive center in the Honduran Bay Islands, on Utila. No proof but no reason to disbelieve them. They asked if I could take them diving for the prices they charged, so I asked them what they were. They were supposedly giving people two dives for US$25, less than I charge for one dive, and including free equipment which isn't included in my prices. When I told them that the fuel cost alone for taking one of my boats out to a dive site for two dives (returning to the dock between dives, so two round trips) was more than the gross income I received from two divers at my regular prices, they didn't believe me. So does a diver visiting Utila get better value than if he comes to Belize? If you're an impecunious student your answer will undoubtedly be "yes", but if you're a well-to-do middle aged professional taking several diving holidays a year your answer may well be different.

This price is possibly true as of some time ago. Utila has enjoyed the reputation of the cheapest diving in the Caribbean for some time. Utila town is full of students that are backpacking across Central and South America and rooms are to be had for $6 a night.

I was quoted a two tank dive price of $50 just by walking into a dive shop (there is one or two every 25 meters of the main street in Utila town. I don't know if that was a regular price or because the boat wasn't full for the dive the next day. I also saw packages of 6 dives advertised for $112 which is the cheapest diving I've seen anywhere with salt water. Diving in Utila is very inexpensive. Resort pricing is comparable to elsewhere in the Caribbean, however.

[Bahamasita]

2. If the pricing was in fact for a group trip with a group leader, Chuck would face the same dilemma that many of us face and that is not knowing anyone on the trip, not be assured of a same sex roommate, not being assured of a roommate at all and having to pay the expensive single supplements, getting stuck with someone for a roommate and a dive buddy (unless we brought our own) and of course usually being the 3rd or 5th wheel in a group of usually all couples.

I have yet to go on an SD trip, as I only recently got OW certified, but I just returned from my recent qualifying dive trip with my LDS. They don't charge any premiums for single divers w/o buddies and don't pair up opposite sex roommates, unless you are a couple or it is okay with the roommates. Sometimes this means that someone gets their own room! They paired my male friend and me up in a room mistakenly on this last trip. When I told them we weren't "together", they immediately reassigned me with another lady, and since there wasn't an available rommate for him, he got his own room with his own bathroom!

There is also always at least one trip leader who is also an instructor who can buddy up with anyone who doesn't already have a buddy -- so there is never a third wheel, unless you want to dive in threes! The hotel accommodations are always included in the package, though you could conceivably make your own arrangements if you really want. The package includes airfare for the longer trips, but it's usually up to you for the shorter weekend trips in case people want to stay an extra day or two. They also do that because people can often find better airfare deals on their own to destinations on those short trips.

I am not familiar with how most bookings are done in other places, but it's nice to know that such end-to-end trips exist with trusted and quality-oriented people, especially for a newbie like me. There's enough to remember for a new diver like me, so it's nice to have a few less things to worry about. I'm sure that would be the case for more experienced divers as well, though perhaps not as necessary for all. Best when I can worry less about accommodations and travel logistics and focus more on diving as I gain more diving experience! My two psi's.

Edited by Bahamasita, 06 August 2005 - 08:17 AM.

[Diverbrian]

2. If the pricing was in fact for a group trip with a group leader, Chuck would face the same dilemma that many of us face and that is not knowing anyone on the trip, not be assured of a same sex roommate, not being assured of a roommate at all and having to pay the expensive single supplements, getting stuck with someone for a roommate and a dive buddy (unless we brought our own) and of course usually being the 3rd or 5th wheel in a group of usually all couples.

I have yet to go on an SD trip, as I only recently got OW certified, but I just returned from my recent qualifying dive trip with my LDS. They don't charge any premiums for single divers w/o buddies and don't pair up opposite sex roommates, unless you are a couple or it is okay with the roommates. Sometimes this means that someone gets their own room! They paired my male friend and me up in a room mistakenly on this last trip. When I told them we weren't "together", they immediately reassigned me with another lady, and since there wasn't an available rommate for him, he got his own room with his own bathroom!

There is also always at least one trip leader who is also an instructor who can buddy up with anyone who doesn't already have a buddy -- so there is never a third wheel, unless you want to dive in threes! The hotel accommodations are always included in the package, though you could conceivably make your own arrangements if you really want. The package includes airfare for the longer trips, but it's usually up to you for the shorter weekend trips in case people want to stay an extra day or two. They also do that because people can often find better airfare deals on their own to destinations on those short trips.

I am not familiar with how most bookings are done in other places, but it's nice to know that such end-to-end trips exist with trusted and quality-oriented people, especially for a newbie like me. There's enough to remember for a new diver like me, so it's nice to have a few less things to worry about. I'm sure that would be the case for more experienced divers as well, though perhaps not as necessary for all. Best when I can worry less about accommodations and travel logistics and focus more on diving as I gain more diving experience! My two psi's.

You have a dive with a good customer base then.

On Carribean packages (through the dive shop that I work through), the single supplement is typically $500 or more if you don't want a roommate. I typically go to Dutch Springs once per year through a dive shop in upstate NY. They wanted $85.00 single supplement for a two night night stay in a Pennsylvania college town.

The "third wheel" doesn't necessarily refer to diving. I spent a lot of time in Providenciales walking around alone at night because all of the couples had retired for the weekend. The dinner conversation was about children and family life as most of the people from our group were married and travelling with spouses. I guess our shop's Cozy trips are even worse. They have the children there too. In short, if you didn't bring a family with you on these trips, the families will politely try to fit you in. But, in the end, you really don't have anyone to share the experience with.

Typically, I only solo dive for a dive that needs to happen anymore or sometimes for deep, cold water dives when I am the only person on the boat that I trust to bring myself back up. Those are different kind of trips though. It just isn't as much fun to me as being able to share the experience. I can be alone at home. I do it quite a bit.

But, the most fun that I have had in warm water was on group trip that was one of the precursors to SD.com. It was a singles trip that was cheaper because we all did our own hotel booking and we didn't really have a travel coordinator to speak although a couple of local ladies were generous enough to collect that info and pick up people flying into the airport. I drove in with several tanks (for other divers mostly) in my car so I didn't require that service. I still wound up paying for a room to myself because we didn't have enough guys and I was the odd man out. Let's see... three nights at an additional $45.00 / night.... Most of the singles from that trip went their own separate ways and the only ones that I communicate with (on a regular basis) are now members here anyways. One is an adminstrator . Another was already one of my best friends. But, keep in mind that we did that trip roughly three to six months prior to SD being formed so we had to do it on our own. Many of our "natural leaders" got stressed and really did a lot more work than the people like myself that just rode in on their coattails. There was no real way to reward them for their efforts either.

The Brockville trip for me last year was similar, but I had a good roomate. That wasn't truly the same in that my dive buddy was already on that trip and that left at least one person that I had at least physically met. There wasn't the typical (for me), "who am I going to dive with today" feeling because of that.

The NC trip in October will be a great time and I don't have to organize rooming arrangements or think about basically eating alone every night. I can still drive in so that I can keep my doubles on my back and do the type of diving that I like to do. In short, I can concentrate on my diving and let someone else make the social arrangements for this "boring dive nerd".

Edited by Diverbrian, 06 August 2005 - 12:00 PM.