72 replies to this topic

[finGrabber]

I think some of the policies and procedures have come about due to the group trips this site runs. This can be a fun board, but it is also a business and I think this is why there is such blur as to what this board really is. Some people see it as a fun place to hang out...others view it as a business

maybe we should get rid of all the rules except for calling people names!

[Neptuner]

Walter, as always I appreciate your candor and the great thing about this community is that you and I can respectfully agree to disagree, without concern for ill feelings. I wish the same held true for everyone.

I think many of our differences lie in our point of view and what we envision the board to be in the first place. Some of us see the board as an integral part of SD trips and services... perhaps even a benefit of those who patronize SD, while others see it simply as another scuba board... a community independent of SD and in need of it own governing policies. Maybe once this question is resolved our philosophies may be closer aligned.

Mike (ShamuLovesMe), I could not agree more... let's go back to the fun days. That's really what I want to see as well... but I think if you read back a bit, there is some question as to who instigated the new policies. Was it really a policy hungry restrictive group of Owners and Admins anxious to tighten down the hatches or was it a necessary reaction to an onslaught of bickering and complaining by members, some of who have never even been paying members of this board? Let's just focus on the fun folks... it's just a cyber-board.

Travis (leaudaustin), thanks for sharing the example of on open complaint forum, you have answered my challenge graciously good gentleman. It is slightly different, however, in that it resides in a different corner of cyberspace than the revenue generating aspect of the business. No matter, I can't imagine a business surviving by allowing their customers to openly post unsubstantiated claims in a public forum... but perhaps SD will prove me wrong as well.

[Mishelle]

I had to take some time before I decided to respomd to all of this, so please know I am speaking from the heart.

~ I have not spoke ill of Kamala or George as people.

~ I have a right as a paying member to be upset when the TOS, that I am expected to comply with, is not complied with by management. And YES< I could provide many examples.

~ Do I always agree with new policies and procedues? Nope. I have a right to my opinion, and if there is a "back room" discussion about me, then I should be involved in it. But since I am noty privy to that "back room", then here is the place I have my voice.
Its kind of like when you were growing up and your mom said, "Dont talk about someone unless they are there to defend themselves."

~ I think an open discussion of something that a member feels in err is good. It allows others to provide an opinion or proactive action. Two heads are better than one, and with over 1700 members....we should be able to move mountains.

I thank everyone for having positive and negative feelings on this. Why??? Because I respect your right to have an opinion. And Que, we call opinons just that...opinions. It is not whining. I did not stamp my feet. I did not throw my mouse. I spoke my mind, and in America, I have the right to do so. And I did so. And I did it within the TOS that were provided to me by SD when I join and paid.

I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this board.... heck I love you all!
Well, okay.... not LOVE.... maybe LUV! lol

I have yet to recieve my "apology", but I am sure it is forthcoming. And I thank the PTB that the issue was now addressed, and I was found in the right.

Now get off the computer and go dive!!!
MUCH LOVE TO YOU ALL.......................
Mishelle

[dustbowl diver]

Well Kid,

Very clearly stated and to the point of what you believe and feel is right!!

As others have communicated, it is with a great deal of hope that we can return to that place that we all once really enjoyed coming 'HOME' too!!!!!!!

[Trimix2dive]

I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this board.... heck I love you all!
Well, okay.... not LOVE.... maybe LUV! lol

I'm sure in the correct woman to man way, as it is suppose to be.

It seems to me that with the tightening of the restrictive noose, most everyone seems to be developing a growing problem of optical rectitus. Maybe the message board should be split in two:

Board 1: Free form no hold bar opinions on any subject matter, no moderation except for post removal for personal attacks. opinions so long as they do not violate the follow are not and should not be removed from the board simply because someone indirectly takes offense to the opinion and wields power for the sake of muscle flexing. What are attacks? - messages with names notated in them, or berating someone and sighting a quote by the other person.

Board 2: The Business Board. Organization Trips, Outings, Happy Hours, Hosted Seminars, Regional Show, Equipment, Etc. Highly moderated boards. Zero Crossover from Board 1. Any fluff, BS, wander, etc. will and can be removed from that board as unrelated babble.

This solves the vast bulk of the problems. Everyone is welcome, and no one owes me a dime.

Rock on, and hang loose.
Caio baby,
Steve

[Mishelle]

STEVE! You are brillant! lol Very funny! And thank you, I needed a laugh today! Much love!

[TheSassyRabbit]

As Michael and others rightly opine, the owners of this board can run it in any way they see fit. But I would just add my own opinion: that the increasingly strict moderation of this board, the addition of more and more policies and procedures, etc. etc. has had a chilling effect. I and a handful of other members that I know have become much more inactive (or have left for good) as a result. It's just not the fun and freewheeling place it once was. So though the owners may seek to make the board a better place with all of the regulations, I would advise them to take a long, hard look at the effects the regulations have, and whether or not those are the effects they wish to achieve.

Case in point: I almost didn't make the effort to post this, because I had to consider (1) whether or not my opinion might get censored (or flamed), and (2) whether or not it would get deleted entirely because I didn't post it in the right place. (On the second point, I felt it was relevant in this thread, but I'll go see if I can track down this new Feedback/Complaint forum that George and Kamala referred to.)

Oh, and continuing thanks to Walter for always bringing levelheadedness and fairness to each thread he posts in. We could use him back in the "back room," I think......

Michael -

I for one am glad you took the time to post. I think your note was clear and simple.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

TSR

[Neptuner]

Rock on Steve... keep spreadin' dah love bro'!

I'll second that notion Babs (okay... SassyRabbit), I'm always glad to hear from the Shamu man!

[Mishelle]

I have yet to recieve my "apology", but I am sure it is forthcoming. And I thank the PTB that the issue was now addressed, and I was found in the right.

I would like to thank you Kamala for your apology.

[WreckWench]

I have yet to recieve my "apology", but I am sure it is forthcoming. And I thank the PTB that the issue was now addressed, and I was found in the right.

I would like to thank you Kamala for your apology.

You are welcome. Mistakes are made and your post was pulled in error. We apologize for not reposting it more timely nor sending you written notification that it was pulled. Waiting to call someone can take too long as was the case in this instance.

I will tell you that our internal moderating policies will be modified to ensure that we are more responsive given a similar situation. You will receive an official response from the Feedback and Resolution Process group.

I felt it was relevant in this thread, but I'll go see if I can track down this new Feedback/Complaint forum that George and Kamala referred to

This forum is designed to handle 3 categories of feedback/suggestions/concerns:

1. Board & Site related matters
2. Personal and member related matters
3. Business related matters

As such, since each problem requires a different method of resolution, they are handled by different members of the SD staff including admins, mods, angels and CM's. They are all however contained in one forum which is private to protect the open nature of the feedback provided.

A full description of this new forum will be posted shortly but basically it will enable concerns to be addressed specifically and quickly in a manner conducive to handling each complaint type.

[drdiver]

Well, as the ultimate renegade, banished forever as I am, for calls of fiduciary responsibility, I would say---it was all handled pretty well.

And I'm glad to see that the trip performance has improved, even if you didn't see the 65 foot woman or a real Mona Monkey.


The great Lord has degreed that all small businesses should do well.

I join him in his felications and wish all the best.

Just be honest or the rath of Gehenna will be visited on ye!

Dive safe11

The Doc

[WreckWench]

We split off the monkey business and diving toasts thread here:

[cmt489]

So Caetllon, when are we going out to have a drink to celebrate your certification?