25 replies to this topic

[drbill]

I think "the" main thing is to distinguish between what occurs as a government or institutionally sanctioned event vs what occurs in a person's private life, or in private institutions.

For a government entity, public school or other public institution to sanction a particular set of religious beliefs is, IMHO, wrong. To see why, imagine you are Jewish (you don't have to imagine if you really are). How would you feel about Christmas being an officially sanctioned holiday by YOUR government when Hannukah isn't? I'd personally prefer celebrating Hannukah because it lasts longer.

What goes on in a person's private life, within a group of close friends or within a private institution (for example, a private religious school) is entirely different. Each person or private gathering should have the right to freely practice its religious beliefs without question (unless it includes maiming or sacrifice, although I'll go for virgin "sacrifice."). It is only when public gatherings that may include people of many different beliefs are involved that I think a particular religious belief has no place.

I think religion can be a very important part of a person's upbringing. I was brought up in a religious framework (although I went to church far more often than my parents did back then). Although I no longer practice what folks would call a "religion," my values are still very much directed by the positive religious practices I acquired as a child.

[HAWKEYE1251]

I think "the" main thing is to distinguish between what occurs as a government or institutionally sanctioned event vs what occurs in a person's private life, or in private institutions.

For a government entity, public school or other public institution to sanction a particular set of religious beliefs is, IMHO, wrong. To see why, imagine you are Jewish (you don't have to imagine if you really are). How would you feel about Christmas being an officially sanctioned holiday by YOUR government when Hannukah isn't? I'd personally prefer celebrating Hannukah because it lasts longer.

What goes on in a person's private life, within a group of close friends or within a private institution (for example, a private religious school) is entirely different. Each person or private gathering should have the right to freely practice its religious beliefs without question (unless it includes maiming or sacrifice, although I'll go for virgin "sacrifice."). It is only when public gatherings that may include people of many different beliefs are involved that I think a particular religious belief has no place.

I think religion can be a very important part of a person's upbringing. I was brought up in a religious framework (although I went to church far more often than my parents did back then). Although I no longer practice what folks would call a "religion," my values are still very much directed by the positive religious practices I acquired as a child.

Here, here!!! That is the point! Well said.....

[finley]

THE LAW IS THE LAW


So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.

I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen.

I say, "so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions.

I would like to think that those people have the American public's best interests at heart.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?

Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and its employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving &Easter. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving &Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all it's just another day.

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday &Easter. It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct."

In fact...

I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshipping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day....

After all, the military personel in this country that defend the rights we take for granted, don't get those days off no matter what holiday it is. So why should, the powers that establish these are religious holidays.


What do you all think????

If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the 'majority' of ALL of the American people.

SO BE IT..

Please Dear Lord,
Give us the help needed to keep you in our country!
'Amen' and 'Amen'

Touche!

These are definitely things I never thought about but from now on, I will be sure to questions those in government who support these changes.




"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan

there are quote after quote of our forefathers that can be made....what ALL of (us?) them? need to consider is that IN FACT....the MAJORITY of not only Americans but those that make America their home...worship GOD...maybe not Jesus but GOD....there really are very few Atheist..and if the "Minority" religions (non christian) are polled.....I BET...that they would rather keep the "christian" holidays..than lose religion (and GOD) in our society....

[ScubaHawk]

there are quote after quote of our forefathers that can be made....what ALL of (us?) them? need to consider is that IN FACT....the MAJORITY of not only Americans but those that make America their home...worship GOD...maybe not Jesus but GOD....there really are very few Atheist..and if the "Minority" religions (non christian) are polled.....I BET...that they would rather keep the "christian" holidays..than lose religion (and GOD) in our society....

I'll take that bet. It begs the question, which god(s)

Anytime a government makes laws based on morals instead of ethics - that society is in trouble.

[drbill]

My goodness, Hawk... are you suggesting those in government actually know what ethics or morals are? Certainly doesn't appear to be the case.

[finley]

My goodness, Hawk... are you suggesting those in government actually know what ethics or morals are? Certainly doesn't appear to be the case.

although we have deviated from the topic....One should remember that you cannot legislate morality nor ethics...only behavior....

[ScubaHawk]

My goodness, Hawk... are you suggesting those in government actually know what ethics or morals are? Certainly doesn't appear to be the case.

Hey I never said they followed those laws . . .

[Dennis]

My comment on our legistators is in my signature. I truly agree with the comment made over 100 years ago.

[Twinklez]

Talk, talk, talk! Stop talking and do something about it. If you don't like what's happening in your neighborhood, your city, your county, your state, or your country then stand up and be heard. Make a difference! You can, if you desire to - you can.

The words "In God We Trust" on a piece of paper? Who cares one way or another? A child without dinner tonight or a warm coat in the winter? I care! An elderly person, or even someone my own age, maybe even me, without the means to receive adequate healthcare? Yet, our government spends thousands and millions and more of "our" money for lavish displays of fresh fruit and real roses that must be changed daily on a Christmas tree? Or how about the toilet seats and ash trays a few years back that cost over $100 each? How about the FEMA contracts that were let right after our hurricanes for millions of dollars without even a competitive bid process? Wondering who's cousin's brother's sister's aunt benefited there. And the price of gasoline just went back up again, why????

My opinion...I want to pray and I want to pray in public! If you don't like it don't listen. It's none of your business to whom or what I am praying to or about! If you want to pray, and I don't care who you want to pray to...go for it! I may even pray with you. I live in the United States of America - the land of the free and the home of the brave! Many men and women have sacrificed so that I may have the right to my own religion, my own opinions, and the right to share my thoughts, feelings and ideas openly. Don't think that I will bury my head in the sand like an ostrich while a bunch of fools take away my freedoms and rights because it offends another. Don't push your beliefs on me and I won't push mine on you; and don't you dare try to take my freedom to practice my beliefs anywhere and anytime I choose and I will afford you the same courtesy. If it offends me, I will simply look aside and allow you your freedom to be who you are and believe what you believe.

Stop your whining and complaining and do something about it! Meet with your mayor, your governor, your congressman, your state representative, visit your state capitol, write letters to people who can represent your voice; go as high as you need to go and don't stop Be heard! VOTE! I've been to the capitol of Texas. I've personally met Bryan Hughes, my representative in the Texas House of Representatives, and Kevin Eltife, Senator in the state of Texas, and Rick Perry our Governor. When in California I wrote letters to George Brown, Jr. who at that time was a member of the US House of Represenatives. It took over 10 years...but the subject that I wrote to him about changed! Guess what? He initiated that change. That means that he listened to me, a 25 year old single mother of 3 children struggling to get through life was heard and listened to by a member of the US House of Representatives.

Freedom, acceptance and tolerance is what it's all about!

Ok...you can have your soap box back now....

Edited by Twinklez, 11 December 2005 - 12:22 PM.

[drbill]

Many good points, Tina.

I for one do what I can... I write letters to the White House and to my state legislators, I write letters to the editor of our local paper and speak out directly to our council representatives.

However, we the American public, have allowed our government to be taken over by corporate lobbying interests. And I repeat, WE have allowed it to happen. There should be NO corporate donorship period. Corporations do not have the franchise to vote so they shouldn't be allowed to buy elections or bills of any kind. If we eliminate corporate "giving" (how can they call it giving when they expect to receive something in exchange?), limit the amount a single individual can contribute and finance campaigns with tax revenues, we might actrually have a representative government.

And as for your right to pray even in public, I agree... as long as others aren't expected to pray with you. Of course if you asked, I might even join you even though I'm not entirely sure Who I'm praying to or whether (S)He actually listens.

[Twinklez]

And as for your right to pray even in public, I agree... as long as others aren't expected to pray with you. Of course if you asked, I might even join you even though I'm not entirely sure Who I'm praying to or whether (S)He actually listens.

I expect to be allowed the freedom that so many men and women have sacrificed for. I expect to be accepted for who I am even though I may be different. I expect those around me to be tolerant of my differences as I am of theirs.

You can expect me to stand up for the ideas that cause my expectations, not just for my benefit but for the benefit of every man, woman and child! (Ok, I have a soft spot for animals too...) :-)

It's called passion...we all have it, some of us just don't know where to find it; but it's there. Trust me...it's there.