43 replies to this topic

[drbill]

No, not me... I'm still single. Whew!

About two and a half years ago a friend of mine had a woman approach him. She wanted to out with him. He was interested but asked her if she had a boyfriend since she lived on the mainland, not the island. She said yes, and he told her he didn't date women who were otherwise involved. This should have been his first clue.

Later she visited again and told him she had broken up with her mainland boyfriend. They went out, had a great time together, and eventually she moved to the island to live with him. She is a Christian, somewhat fundamentalist, and he is a self-proclaimed atheist. Although that was an issue, it wasn't a stopper.

He helped her consolidate all her debts (significant) and put them on his credit card. They bought furniture, etc., for their new love nest the American way (on his credit card). Their relationship was going great and several months ago he proposed to her (this is a former carnie who told me just a few years ago he'd never get married again). He bought her a diamond ring, she accepted, and they planned to marry early this year.

Then last week she said she wanted to break up. The reason (as she put it then) was that she worried that when they both died, she'd be in heaven and he'd be in hell. At least that's what she said at the time.

Rather than kicking her out the door, he let her stay at the house so she would have time to find her own place (housing is very tough out here). All her debt, and their joint debt was now on his credit cards and without her contribution to repay it, he is having to file for bankruptcy.

Turns out she just wants "a little space" now that she's free and clear of her debt and is making enough to live on her own. She loves to go out on the town and party, while he's too tired after working all day. So now she's free to party on, Garth. She kept the engagement ring and plans to sell it.

Now tell me, do her actions sound very Christian to you? I'm not being critical of true Christians in asking this. I have great respect for those who practice the tenets of the religion in a true way. However, why would one who professes to be so true a Believer, do something like this to a guy who only treated her with respect and love?

Makes me glad to be single!

[zesach]

Ouch!

Seems like your friend is living the Christian ideal much more than she did/does...

But like you said, the warning signs were there right from the beginning (not being religious, I'm just guessing), but it would seem pretty contradictory for someone devoted to Christianity to even broach the subject of an affair when seeing someone else, much less what she did after that.

IMO in life, money is the most easily replacable asset; faith in other people and your heart are much tougher to heal.

He's lucky to have you as a friend.

[Walter]

Thou shalt not steal.

To avoid running afoul of this, she needs to return the ring and reclaim her debts.

[WreckWench]

Thou shalt not steal.

To avoid running afoul of this, she needs to return the ring and reclaim her debts.

It is hard to know what happened between these two but easy to speculate. However Walter is right. Regardless of what happened she needs to do just as Walter suggests.

[Dennis]

Christian, my backside. Anyone that would use another like that is not Christian.

[WreckWench]

Christian, my backside. Anyone that would use another like that is not Christian.

I agree. However she may feel that she is regardless...or perhaps she just slipped. She can easily make amends by doing just as Walter suggested

[drbill]

Ouch!

Seems like your friend is living the Christian ideal much more than she did/does...

My comment to him exactly.

But like you said, the warning signs were there right from the beginning (not being religious, I'm just guessing), but it would seem pretty contradictory for someone devoted to Christianity to even broach the subject of an affair when seeing someone else, much less what she did after that.

Agree... I couldn't understand how a self-professed Christian could even suggest this at the time.

IMO in life, money is the most easily replacable asset; faith in other people and your heart are much tougher to heal.

My friend feels the same way... he says he will never trust another woman after this. It's the second time in a row he's been badly burned.

I know Christians of all kinds. Some are very consistent in living their beliefs and I have great respect for that because many of the tenets of Christianity are part of my own belief system. I know others who fail on occasion, yet ackbowledge they are "imperfect" (aren't we all). I respect that as well. However, someone who professes such a strong belief, yet whose actions belie it, I have little respect for.

Walter and WW are right on the honorable (and Christian IMHO) way to resolve this. But she won't take that route!

[Dejah]

I have to agree with Walter as well, she should reclaim her debt and I think if she doesn't do it willingly she should be made to do it legally. Just my .02

Dejah

[finGrabber]

I agree with Dejah

the usual custom is if the woman breaks off the engagement, she gives back the ring

he should find out if he has any legal recourse against her for the debt he's taken on and getting the ring back

[secretsea18]

No, not me... I'm still single. Whew!

is a Christian, somewhat fundamentalist, and he is a self-proclaimed atheist. Although that was an issue, it wasn't a stopper.

He helped her consolidate all her debts (significant) and put them on his credit card. They bought furniture, etc., for their new love nest the American way (on his credit card).

Sounds like your friend is a nice guy... It's too bad that he did not think of her debt situation in a business like way. Such as making a loan contract with her for repayment.
Of course, his emotions got the best of him here, and trusting her to "do the right thing".

What does she say about repaying him the loan of using his credit to pay her debt? Has he asked her to repay him???

Robin

[ScubaPunk]

IMO in life, money is the most easily replacable asset; faith in other people and your heart are much tougher to heal.

My friend feels the same way... he says he will never trust another woman after this. It's the second time in a row he's been badly burned.

Very common situation he has fallen into. I have a hard time trusting men for the same reason. If I had the money back that I spent to pay off my X's debt, I could probably retire right now.

[Dejah]

I have to agree with Walter as well, she should reclaim her debt and I think if she doesn't do it willingly she should be made to do it legally. Just my .02

Dejah

If only it were that simple.

He has essentially 'gifted' her with the money and the debt consolidation; I suspect he would be hard pressed to recover anything through the courts absent a written agreement signed by both parties.

How do you think the Prenuptial Agreement came into being?

PlatypusMan

Regardless of the situation I would still see if he has any legal recourse on this situation instead of ruining his own credit so badly. Oh and pre-nups I would think only work once you've taken the plunge and gotten married, then again every state is different on those.

[zesach]

PlatypusMan is right - unless they signed a contract, there's nothing that he can do to her, and she's under no legal (a TON of moral ones) obligation to compeansate him or make him whole.

Something similar to this happened to my dad, and there is no legal protection/recourse available - this is the price of being generous.

Sad, sad, sad...

But the best thing for your friend to do (again IMO) is forgive her, bear no ill will towards her, and move forward with as open and happy a heart as possible.

Look at her instead as a pet you were trying to toilet train - there's no point in getting mad, hating, or beating the crap out of them for peeing on the carpet - they just don't know any better.

[WreckWench]

He may have legal recourse for getting the ring back. Seems a good friend of mine watches the tv jury shows such as Judge Judy and she as well as many of those judges do give the ring back and any other gifts given under the auspices of getting married. Seems the engagement process is a legal covenent and therefore he does have some rights.

Aside from that the greater issue is that we all trust with our instincts and our heart rather than our mind and logic. Desparate people do desparate things. Rather than not trusting again...one should figure out how to do so with caution and care.

For example...if I were the lady involved with your friend and he said he would cover my debts, help me etc and THEN he said but should anything happen to us, then I would expect that you would resume your debt or help to pay off the obligation etc, I would never have flinched. I would have agreed because I knew what my intentions were. If I did flinch then he should not of taken such drastic measures in helping her.